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Daniel Wang on the disco revival and HMD

Daniel Wang on the disco revival and HMD

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Count Arthur Strong
Wed, 18/05/2011 - 10:23

http://www.djhistory.com/features/at-least-we-learned-to-dance

Sleevenotes to the new HMD III comp. They're so beautifully written, we had to have them on the site. 

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#1
Wed, 18/05/2011 - 15:32
smashin read. thanks
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#2
Wed, 18/05/2011 - 15:41
Fantastic. Thanks for that.
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#3
Wed, 18/05/2011 - 15:45
Tha's exactly the kind of writing that reminds me why I love disco music!
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#4
Wed, 18/05/2011 - 16:55
Ahhhh danny wang is one of the true greats! Always entertaining!
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#5
Wed, 18/05/2011 - 19:20
Excellent article
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#6
Wed, 18/05/2011 - 21:09
disco may have universal appeal but it so much more vibrant, healthy and honest in the hands of the worldwide gay communities... Wang may not be saying it, but reclaiming disco from the hands of straight men intent on constant 'revisionism' has been long over due...
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#7
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 01:31
zuki wrote:
disco may have universal appeal but it so much more vibrant, healthy and honest in the hands of the worldwide gay communities... Wang may not be saying it, but reclaiming disco from the hands of straight men intent on constant 'revisionism' has been long over due...


Let's not get too carried away here Zuki. I've never revised anything and I'm old enough to have been around since before the term Disco was even invented. I don't agree that Disco has necessarily been 'so much more vibrant, healthy and honest in the hands of the worldwide gay communities'. For sure, the gay community has always been a hotbed of enthusiasm for all things Disco, but as someone who can remember some real attrocities being served up in gay clubs whilst far better stuff was being ignored in the same clubs yet championed in the more progressive straight clubs, I'd have to say that any such sweeping generalisations are dangerous. There was a time when the U.S. Disco chart was so overloaded with Disco pap, that it lost all credibility in many areas, Michael Zager and Madleen Kane actually being prime examples of records which primarily appealed to a gay crowd but went no further. And I'm saying this as someone who got landed with the task of promoting Madleen Kane's "Rough Diamond" at the time (an unenviable task believe me). "Rough Diamond" may have appealed to a gay audience (along the same lines as an Amanda Lear record for instance) but I can assure you that the records never went beyond the core gay audience back then or anytime since to my knowledge.

As someone who has always kept a keen eye on most areas of the dance music scene for the last 40 years or so, I think it's naive to make sweeping generalisations. So when you say statements like, "reclaiming disco from the hands of straight men intent on constant 'revisionism' has been long over due" I have to wonder what you're actually getting at. Can you clarify?

Oh, by the way, the sleeve notes are brilliantly written. Very good.

Ian D Smile
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#8
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 02:05
Great sleeve notes.

Bought the first two HMD comps, but can't say I've played them too much ...

Prefered the three 12" edits they released on their own label - any more in the offering?

(You still hear them played out.)

On other related matters ... in the intro to Danny Wang's piece it says, refering to disco: "Now it seems, it’s everywhere."

Is this really true? At best the current disco scene - for want of a better term - is an underground, micro culture - centered around one or two venues (tops) in a few bigger cities, and a handful of DJs ... and very limited numbers, in terms of music sales (vinyl or otherwise) ... this somewhat 'exclusive', almost esoteric aspect of the recent-ish interest in disco is , I think, part of its continuing appeal.
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#9
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 05:19
MJH wrote:


On other related matters ... in the intro to Danny Wang's piece it says, refering to disco: "Now it seems, it’s everywhere."

Is this really true? At best the current disco scene - for want of a better term - is an underground, micro culture - centered around one or two venues (tops) in a few bigger cities, and a handful of DJs ... and very limited numbers, in terms of music sales (vinyl or otherwise) ... this somewhat 'exclusive', almost esoteric aspect of the recent-ish interest in disco is , I think, part of its continuing appeal.



you looked at the disco/new disco/edits sections in juno or piccadilly recently? techno used to be considered an "underground micro culture" once too...
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#10
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 09:07
EmptySleeve wrote:
MJH wrote:


On other related matters ... in the intro to Danny Wang's piece it says, refering to disco: "Now it seems, it’s everywhere."

Is this really true? At best the current disco scene - for want of a better term - is an underground, micro culture - centered around one or two venues (tops) in a few bigger cities, and a handful of DJs ... and very limited numbers, in terms of music sales (vinyl or otherwise) ... this somewhat 'exclusive', almost esoteric aspect of the recent-ish interest in disco is , I think, part of its continuing appeal.



you looked at the disco/new disco/edits sections in juno or piccadilly recently? techno used to be considered an "underground micro culture" once too...



It is a bit weird to keep going on about the "disco revival" when it's been going on at least since the mid-90s!!! Big up to danny wang though
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#11
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 11:28
great notes, really enjoyed reading them. been one time to a hmd party at tape club, it really was impressive. also never heard disco music on such a good sound system. diana ross' "the boss" nearly blew my mind... very loud and bass-heavy but still having a clear sound. wonderful.
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#12
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 11:43
Danny Wang wrote:
There are too many good songs and phrases; you can never own every record. It’s like going to the beach: you stare at the ocean, dazed by its immensity. But then you bend down and put a handful of pebbles and sand into a bottle, you take it home, and it gives you joy.


Ohh, that's good.
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#13
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 14:42
EmptySleeve wrote:
MJH wrote:


On other related matters ... in the intro to Danny Wang's piece it says, refering to disco: "Now it seems, it’s everywhere."

Is this really true? At best the current disco scene - for want of a better term - is an underground, micro culture - centered around one or two venues (tops) in a few bigger cities, and a handful of DJs ... and very limited numbers, in terms of music sales (vinyl or otherwise) ... this somewhat 'exclusive', almost esoteric aspect of the recent-ish interest in disco is , I think, part of its continuing appeal.



you looked at the disco/new disco/edits sections in juno or piccadilly recently? techno used to be considered an "underground micro culture" once too...



The difference though is that those "disco/new disco/edits" are pressed in editions of c. 500 copies these days.
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#14
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 14:46
Ian Dewhirst wrote:
but as someone who can remember some real attrocities being served up in gay clubs whilst far better stuff was being ignored in the same clubs yet championed in the more progressive straight clubs, I'd have to say that any such sweeping generalisations are dangerous.


Would posit the bulk of the HI-NRG segment (especially in the early '80s) as clumsy and antiquated as soon as they were recorded - despite Ian Levine's involvement in the Record Shack label, can't say that the releases from that outfit proved to be particularly endearing personally.

If one were to claim that that disco rests absolutely in the province of the gay community, one could potentially be brazenly more fascist in tone and marshal it solely as the domain of ITALIAN-AMERICAN gay males (Mancuso, Aletti, Siano, Viteritti, etc.) at the exclusion of all other ethnicities... Slightly disconcerting, no?
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#15
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 18:15
EmptySleeve wrote:
MJH wrote:


On other related matters ... in the intro to Danny Wang's piece it says, refering to disco: "Now it seems, it’s everywhere."

Is this really true? At best the current disco scene - for want of a better term - is an underground, micro culture - centered around one or two venues (tops) in a few bigger cities, and a handful of DJs ... and very limited numbers, in terms of music sales (vinyl or otherwise) ... this somewhat 'exclusive', almost esoteric aspect of the recent-ish interest in disco is , I think, part of its continuing appeal.



you looked at the disco/new disco/edits sections in juno or piccadilly recently? techno used to be considered an "underground micro culture" once too...



the stuff thats getting called 'disco' these days bears little realtion to what most djh people would condsider disco. An arpeggio bassline and some pappy housey beats seem to constitute disco in the world of juno and beatport
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#16
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 19:38
I'm a bit confused by Danny Wang. I'm sure he wrote a piece in the 90's dissing the New York d.j. cognoscenti for playing too many standards and classics from the disco era throughout their sets. His contention was that the music they played in New York wasn't as progressive as they played in Europe which was stifling the creative advancement of the music they were producing.
I thought this was an odd position for him to take as his music was disco sample tracks whilst the guys he was criticising were writing original songs.
As for some of the records being touted around now as great tracks well.....they stunk at the time and the smell hasn't improved with age. I'm all for digging but if some of these , "gems ", were a dog they would have been at the vets with a needle in their arse a long time a go.
Does music have a sexuality ? Or racial profile ? Gender ?
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#17
Thu, 19/05/2011 - 22:32
factory wrote:

I'm a bit confused by Danny Wang. I'm sure he wrote a piece in the 90's dissing the New York d.j. cognoscenti for playing too many standards and classics from the disco era throughout their sets. His contention was that the music they played in New York wasn't as progressive as they played in Europe which was stifling the creative advancement of the music they were producing.
I thought this was an odd position for him to take as his music was disco sample tracks whilst the guys he was criticising were writing original songs.


There seems to be an injection of wistful nostalgic revisionism at work - from a voice who wasn't there to experience it firsthand; don't dispute his sincere affection towards the genre per se, but would concur that a nagging "wish I were there @ _____ (fill in the venue of your choice: Trocadero Transfer, Gallery, etc.) does suffuse much of the prose. Not sure whether this longing will ever be sated.
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#18
Fri, 20/05/2011 - 00:48
Hey this is Danny Wang himself here! First - i dont think anyone should take EVERY word in the notes or in the comments above TOO seriously. I didnt even know someone would post my text here online, i only submitted it to the HMD graphic designer 4 days ago. And now - here on this forum - surprise!

Yes, i did write an article long ago "dissing" some NYC dj's for playing certain classics and not others. But in the end, thats a question of taste. I learned from some of those DJs, and didnt learn much from others. And everyone starts making music SOMEWHERE. I had no idea what i was doing when i first started making music! Ha! Those early tracks i made based on old disco samples still make me cringe a little myself. Yet, i wouldnt say that someone else is making good music ONLY because they didnt sample. The Pal Joey / Burrell Brothers' sample-based tracks had originality and funkiness and beauty all the same, and as i always said, it was all those completely out-of-tune and non-harmonic "original" house tracks produced by NYC's celebrated DJ/producers at the time which made me realise that there HAD to be something better out there Wink (And indeed that something has come along... in various places)
Really, im not terribly nostalgic. Why long for the past when the present is just as good? Do people listen to Debussy or Chopin because theyre nostalgic for 1880? No, its just because that's beautiful music, whatever era youre living in. I love listening to Debussy, and i love listening to great disco music. Greek statues from 2000 years ago look just as sexy today. It's not nostalgia, trust me. In fact, the bit about AIDS ought to make the reader realise that nostalgia is an illusion...
Now Michael Zager and Madleen Kane... ha ha! Cant blame someone for jumping on that. But i didn't name "Lets All Chant" or "Rough Diamond", did i? Zager produced The Spinners, Andrea True, and some other great funky songs which were not quite as commercial nor obvious, and which the HMD boys and i love to play out. And Madleen Kane, well she WAS just a pretty blond with a wispy voice, but her producers (two French names, i forget: Lana & Sebastian something...) produced some great (=funky and interesting) songs for her as well. I wont name them, you have to listen to the albums and figure them out...
Yes yes yes, we all worry about gay / straight / black / white etc. But if you see people dancing together at our parties, i dont think anyone REALLY is worrying about who is what. And im not "reclaiming" anything. (Vince Montana, one of my great heroes, is as white and heterosexual as they come Wink So why spend so much energy splitting hairs? (i shouldnt even write so much, i think music without words is the best!)
Thanks to everybody for all this "positive energy" -- i'm from California, originally, afterall -- the Berlin thing is just a disguise! Laughing out loud
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#19
Fri, 20/05/2011 - 01:13
danielwang wrote:

Really, im not terribly nostalgic. Why long for the past when the present is just as good? Do people listen to Debussy or Chopin because theyre nostalgic for 1880? No, its just because that's beautiful music, whatever era youre living in.


Exactly!
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#20
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 04:09
A pleasure to read.

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#21
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 07:43
zuki wrote:
disco may have universal appeal but it so much more vibrant, healthy and honest in the hands of the worldwide gay communities... Wang may not be saying it, but reclaiming disco from the hands of straight men intent on constant 'revisionism' has been long over due...


I don't know what that means, but I probably disagree.
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#22
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 09:37
Al Kent wrote:
zuki wrote:
disco may have universal appeal but it so much more vibrant, healthy and honest in the hands of the worldwide gay communities... Wang may not be saying it, but reclaiming disco from the hands of straight men intent on constant 'revisionism' has been long over due...


I don't know what that means, but I probably disagree.


I'm leaning towards disagreeing too.
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#23
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:12
I'm in full support of reclaiming disco from straight white men. Hands off you fuckers.
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#24
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:13
Especially ones with beards and/or beer bellies.
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#25
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:16
Milo wrote:
Especially ones with beards and/or beer bellies.


and you're straight with a belly Smile
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#26
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:23
You're right! God, I hate myself.

I do genuinely think that the straight white bloke thing is a bit of an issue because many simply don't get it, as is evidenced by the vaste amount of edits that get rid of all the swishy/camp/cheesy bits of disoc records and make them sound like progressive house.

Actually, it's probably more about loving disco for what it is rather than sexuality, gender or race. But anyone who wants to bin all the good bits from disco and make it easy to mix can fuck off.

Thanks.
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#27
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:32
Milo wrote:
You're right! God, I hate myself.

I do genuinely think that the straight white bloke thing is a bit of an issue because many simply don't get it, as is evidenced by the vaste amount of edits that get rid of all the swishy/camp/cheesy bits of disoc records and make them sound like progressive house.

Actually, it's probably more about loving disco for what it is rather than sexuality, gender or race. But anyone who wants to bin all the good bits from disco and make it easy to mix can fuck off.

Thanks.


what is there to get? Your interpretation of disco or theirs. Take a chill pill, back away from your computer, place your favourite Bobby O record on your turntable, turn up the volume, turn off your lights and live the dream.
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#28
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:42
I´m with Milo on this one although i am very fond of the "chicago styled" edits that focuses on the rawness. I don´t think the problem has anything to do with sexuality but it is boring that instead of losing it to the music we all love people tend to stand around talking about their careers commenting on a mix every half hour. That happens alot over here and it´s not exactly my idea of a great night out.

/K
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#29
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:43
Milo wrote:
You're right! God, I hate myself.

I do genuinely think that the straight white bloke thing is a bit of an issue because many simply don't get it, as is evidenced by the vaste amount of edits that get rid of all the swishy/camp/cheesy bits of disoc records and make them sound like progressive house.

Actually, it's probably more about loving disco for what it is rather than sexuality, gender or race. But anyone who wants to bin all the good bits from disco and make it easy to mix can fuck off.

Thanks.

Very true.

So if I re-edit an old Guerilla track with added camp do I get disco?

Dub-house-disco
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#30
Sat, 21/05/2011 - 10:50
nohonourinhonor wrote:
what is there to get? Your interpretation of disco or theirs. Take a chill pill, back away from your computer, place your favourite Bobby O record on your turntable, turn up the volume, turn off your lights and live the dream.

I think you'll find my interpretation of disco is the right one.
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