British hip hop

[ladyboygrimsby]

It's stopped being a joke now, I feel.<br /><br /> Favourite newies(ish):<br />Roots Manuva - Witness (and Witness Dub)<br />Ty - Groovement<br />Bone Idols and Aphletik feat. Ty - Keep On<br /><br />Oldies: <br />Ruthless Rap Assasins - And It Wasn't A Dream<br />Caveman - I'm Ready<br /><br />And Derek B, just for old time's sake ( well, I loved him at the time) :P

[mattm]

In the oldies section<br /><br />DJ Mink

[erd]

TY is quite good indeed.<br /><br />Peace.<br /><br />Gerd

[Jolyon]

I always liked 'Original Dope' by Outlaw Posse...good dance record.

[matthew]

witness is a hip hop classic full stop.<br /><br />katch 22 did a couple of good tracks as i recall.

[Rohan]

From last year;<br />Fallacy &amp; Fusion - The Groundbraker (Pretty powerful stuff on the dancefloor)<br /><br />Oldies but goodies<br />Blade - Mind of an ordinary citizen<br />Hijack - The Horns of Jericho<br />Hijack - The Badman is Robbin<br />London posse -How's Life in London (the first hip hop crew I heard that sounded British)<br />Silver Bullet - 20 seconds to comply<br />Silver Bullet - Bring forth the Gullotine<br />Son of Noise - Neagative Forces<br /><br />Interesting stuff, because a lot of this stuff was pretty fast verging on Hardcore. Which I never heard the American do at he time. Also at the time a major critism was that UK rappers sounded like Americans

[greg wilson]

<br />Oldies: <br />Ruthless Rap Assasins - And It Wasn't A Dream<br /><br /><br />Is right Bill.<br /><br />More info on the crew from the North: <br />http://www.rapassassins.f9.co.uk/

[greg wilson]

From the above website:<br /><br />http://www.rapassassins.f9.co.uk/ukhiphop.jpg<br />UK Hip-Hop was (and indeed still is) largely dominated by London-based artists and crews. In the shot on the left, taken in 1988 by Normski, the Rap Assassins (bottom right, with Kiss-AMC - hover your mouse over the artists on the image for help!) are pictured with the Demon Boyz, Overlord X, Monie Love, the She Rockers, Top Billin' (who later became Definition of Sound), the Stereo MCs (who later sold lots of a mediocre album, having previously released two excellent ones!), MC Mell 'O' (often credited as being the UK's best MC) and Richie Rich, amongst others. <br /><br />

[Asylum]

<br /><br />And Derek B, just for old time's sake ( well, I loved him at the time) :P<br /><br /><br />Derek Boland's stuff is funny as fuck now...those lyrics are unmatchable.<br /><br />&quot;Two big things like basket balls...down below was like Niagra falls&quot;<br /><br />He was actually pretty big down in NZ...saw him support Run DMC about 1989- he came on and said &quot;Who's Number One?&quot; and the whole crowd yelled back &quot;Bullet from a Gun&quot;. He had no idea they even knew who he was...it floored him and he was silently mouth open for a moment or two.

[smiley]

bugger me, when did Derek B play NZ???<br />i's a big Derek B fan ;D &quot;...Winston on the door didn't give me any ag...&quot;<br />the first Stereo MC's LP &quot;33-44-78&quot;, one of the best sleeves i'd ever seen back then and &quot;What Is Soul?&quot;. sublime tune. and DJ Mink too. Classic early Warp.<br />i've been fully impressed with the state of British hip-hop for a good two years now, the Rodney P &amp; Skitz mix CD that came out with Touch last year was a great showcase. They're playing out this way next month, looking forward to that one...<br />i kinda lump a lot of 2-step/wot-you-call-it in with the idea of British hip-hop too. &quot;21 Seconds&quot; was a f *cking ace track no matter what you might think of Sol Solid now. it's the Brit &quot;Message&quot; IMHO. <br />Dizzee and Wiley et al, all good... hammered the Ty LP all last summer too, great sunshine listening (along with Amp Fiddler) 8)

[Peachy Mister]

<br />Interesting stuff, because a lot of this stuff was pretty fast verging on Hardcore. Which I never heard the American do at he time. <br /><br /><br />Very true - I've still got an amazing UK hip hop 12 from early 90s, &quot;Untitled&quot; by Hardnoise, that is probably the most aggressive record I've ever heard - sort of record that makes you feel like starting a riot. Or at the very least gobbing on the pavement. And fantastic with it.<br /><br />I think some of those raw production values were definitely inherited by the hardcore scene

[Andrew@6MS]

<br />It's stopped being a joke now, I feel.<br /><br />Oldies: <br />Caveman - I'm Ready<br /><br /><br />The LP &quot;Positive Reaction&quot; is possibly my fave LP of any UK Hip-Hop act. Some outstanding cuts on there, with &quot;Cool ('Cos I Don't Get Upset)&quot; the best of the bunch. Superb stuff! ;D

[jahcoozi]

Being from oop north I was a full time Rap Assasins man they could do it live and on wax none of the PA/DAT crap, and their lil cousins Krispy 3 destroy all stereotypes.TUNE!!!<br /> Not sure whats changed in GB hip hop the quality has always been in the scene,?? I listen to the Think lp by the rap assasins and it seems to have a pedigree you find in Roots Manuva's lp and Think is 13 years old(sorry greg) not sure what Adam F was up to though

[smiley]

<br />not sure what Adam F was up to though <br /><br />er, quite ::)<br />the MOP tune was way nasty. can't be havin' with !!!shouty!!! hip-hop.

[JJ]

Love that Caveman tune. I recall its gotta bit of Hendrix in it, but what is the funk/jazz record it also samples? It's niggling me here at work. <br /><br />Cheers<br />JJ

[Andrew@6MS]

<br />Love that Caveman tune. I recall its gotta bit of Hendrix in it, but what is the funk/jazz record it also samples? It's niggling me here at work. <br /><br />Cheers<br />JJ<br /><br /><br />JJ - I don't think it samples anything else apart from &quot;Crosstown Traffic&quot;. I think the rest of the music on there is music they've made themselves........<br /><br />......but I could be wrong.....

[ladyboygrimsby]

<br />Being from oop north I was a full time Rap Assasins man they could do it live and on wax none of the PA/DAT crap, and their lil cousins Krispy 3 destroy all stereotypes.TUNE!!!<br /> Not sure whats changed in GB hip hop the quality has always been in the scene,?? I listen to the Think lp by the rap assasins and it seems to have a pedigree you find in Roots Manuva's lp and Think is 13 years old(sorry greg) not sure what Adam F was up to though <br /><br /><br />I think the reason it hasn't been as consistent as it is now is entirely down to the accent. There were far too many UK MCs who fancied themselves as Brooklyn gangstas and it's held back British hip hop for a long time. Most of them have found a voice now and it shows. There are exceptions, obviously, which is why I named Ruthless Rap Assasins. I thought they sounded English, which is why I liked them. If you listen to French hip hop, it never had these problems and it's probably due to the fact they were speaking in a different language. (Now let's hear it for Nique Ta Mere, possibly the greatest group name in history!)

[Ed Thrasher]

One of the best examples of Brit Hip Hop is the Tiltle track to Massive Attacks 1st LP 'Blue Lines purely because they are not &quot;puttiing on &quot; a US accent. The only other success's are probably down just use of samples / music and not the actual rap (Caveman's Fry You Like Fish /Outlaws&quot;s Origiinal Dope)<br /><br />But Derek B is funnier than Pitman though.

[smiley]

<br />The only other success's are probably down just use of samples / music and not the actual rap <br />like MC Buzz B - &quot;Never Change&quot;... not even sure how the vocal goes but the outro is excellent ;D Shelly's ahoy!

[pc]

No one came close to Hijack. <br />Cj and Einstein's Tables are Turnin was good as well.. great scratchapella on it.<br />Mc Duke - I'm riffin was great record sampling The Equals Funky like a train..<br />And the all time un answered question were the Willsden dodgers from the UK...<br />Manchesters (Northern) Hip Hop was generally wank though... Buzz b's did a couple of good tiunes/krispy three..<br />Unique 3 (sort of UK hip house) were great though.. Anyone remmber the cover...done by System from wales... he used to have loads of graf up in Spin-inn.....aghhh happy hip hop days.<br />Bus-Diss

[Belson]

<br /><br />Love that Caveman tune. I recall its gotta bit of Hendrix in it, but what is the funk/jazz record it also samples? It's niggling me here at work. <br /><br />Cheers<br />JJ<br /><br /><br />JJ - I don't think it samples anything else apart from &quot;Crosstown Traffic&quot;. I think the rest of the music on there is music they've made themselves........<br /><br />......but I could be wrong.....<br /><br /><br />The opening salvo is from Eddie Bo's 'Hook and Sling' and the drums are a straight lift from Kool and the Gangs 'Chocolate Buttermilk'.<br /><br />Does anybody remember The Brotherhood. 3 guys from mixed race backgrounds touted as the saviours of British rap. Did one album signed to Virgin (I think) and disappeard without a trace.<br /><br />A couple of early doors faves for me would be SL Troopers 'Movement' and of course, the awesome Demon Boyz 'Vibes'.

[JJ]

Cheers Belson

[Topester]

Nah the best UK hip hop record of all time is 'Hip Hop Beat' by the Rapologists Featuring Whiz Kid on turntables.... brilliant/funny breakdance era tune... ask Uncle Greg he's bound to remember it.<br /><br />Not really hip hop per se but I'm also rather fond of Hardrock Soul Movement 'Double Def Fresh'...<br /><br />Don't forget &quot;Sister Monie, the only one who didn't get the plane back fo London, I resided with my brothers and I learned a lot from them...&quot;!<br /><br />Reeeeeespeck to MC Mello, Outlaw Posse, London Posse, The Brotherhood's I Might Smoke A Spliff But i won't Sniff, Trevor Jackson's pre-Output Bite It label.

[Smac]

I remember seeing The Rap Assassins play a free open air evening gig down by the lake in Toronto to a thoroughly bemused and very middle-of-the-road Canadian crowd. I thought they were brilliant, but the whole spectacle was hilarious. Fair play to them. I think they were sandwiched between a string quartet and a country and western act. (I also saw the actor who played &quot;Manimal&quot; in a hotel the same evening - Oh what a night!).<br /><br />I loved the Mase (from De La Soul) remix of &quot;Justice (Just Us)&quot; but it wasn't on the album (which I bought at the Toronto gig on cassette!!). Anyone know if it's difficult to find the 12&quot; now? <br /><br />I remember Credit to the Nation getting a lot of hype and having one fairly dreadful Nirvana sampling single but I have a feeling I heard a good track by them/him once. Am I hallucinating?<br /><br />Also, while it might not really be hip-hop I used to like Underdog Vs Sabres of Paradise &quot;Theme&quot;, although I haven't listened to it in ages.

[Secret Squirrel]

Trev's Hip Hop productions also crossed over to his Output label. There was a series of 4 10&quot; with different artist names (mid to late 90's ?) but all produced by the underdog and all fairly good instrumental Hip Hop.<br /><br />

[matthew]

Was Davy DMX British? The voice on One For The Treble definitely is...

[Groover]

London Posse - Gangster Chronicle in 1990 for me was the first time I heard UK rappers rap in UK dialect. It was just silly listening to the fake sqeaky US accents that was the staple of most of them. A rap album in cockney made an interesting change........

[Vic20]

In a helium type voice..&quot;Whizz Kid is wick-ed..&quot;<br /><br />Good call Topestar. <br /><br />I used to think the Demon Boys were a class act who alongside Hijack were way ahead of the game back then.

[jahcoozi]

PC man you should check yo self, ::) dissmissing the north hulme 3 <br /><br /> ' always rock everywhere you play, keep a list of every punk you slay!' <br /><br />seem to remember a pretty angry LP from Black Radical early nineties doledoom

[Andrew@6MS]

<br />Was Davy DMX British? The voice on One For The Treble definitely is...<br /><br /><br />Matt,<br /><br />Davy DMX is definitely American. He did a later LP on Def Jam around 1987 with the Bernie Marsden sampling &quot;Keep Your Distance&quot;. Also did a small appearance on Kurtis Blow's &quot;America&quot; LP with a wicked cut &quot;AJ Meets Davy DMX&quot;.<br /><br />I always thought the voice on &quot;One For The Treble&quot; was some yank bird talking in a mock Britsh accent......<br /><br />.....but as Greg proved earlier, I could be wrong...... Again!! ;)<br /><br />

[Jolyon]

<br /><br />The only other success's are probably down just use of samples / music and not the actual rap <br />like MC Buzz B - &quot;Never Change&quot;... not even sure how the vocal goes but the outro is excellent ;D Shelly's ahoy!<br /><br /><br />Never Change was a stinker! Terrible rap! It was okay at the time and indeed....Shelley's ahoy!

[RD]

well theyre all here now, well almost, the uk old school hip hop hall of fame!<br /><br />have we mentioned cash crew or syndicate ? <br />slow down (remix) with female singer is baad the production never dates<br /><br />oh shit &amp; what about the bristol crew a few diamonds there...smith &amp; mighty

[Asylum]

La Di Da Di....I can't believe no-one has mentioned Slick Rick...first rapper I heard with an English accent<br /><br />Jas....Derek B played the Powerstation about 88/89 with Run DMC

[Awkward]

What about Ragga Twins? Semi-rave outfit but should definitely sit shoulder to shoulder with Demon Boyz and Hardnoise. :)

[Vic20]

<br />well theyre all here now, well almost, the uk old school hip hop hall of fame!<br /><br />have we mentioned cash crew or syndicate ? <br />slow down (remix) with female singer is baad the production never dates<br /><br />oh shit &amp; what about the bristol crew a few diamonds there...smith &amp; mighty <br /><br /><br />The Syndicate aka MC Crazy Noddy &amp; Dexter....made some great traxx on BAAD (eddie richards label?) and then signed to 10 Records and made some schweet street soul n rap...Remember Dexter selling my mate x2 copies of The Monkees - Mary Mary for £20...but this was about 84 @ Spats so at the time £20 was alot of money for us street urchins back then..you could get 4 imports outta Groove for that price. <br /><br />Werd 2 the berd. ;D

[jahcoozi]

Yeah Cash Crew dont it make your blue eyes brown, anyone bigging up A Definition of Sounds, hippy hop- WE pAPA rappers and Monie Love to and Simon Harris breaks beats and shit LP's ah the o'l dayz two tape players and a pause button

[greg wilson]

<br />I remember seeing The Rap Assassins play a free open air evening gig down by the lake in Toronto to a thoroughly bemused and very middle-of-the-road Canadian crowd. I thought they were brilliant, but the whole spectacle was hilarious. Fair play to them. I think they were sandwiched between a string quartet and a country and western act. (I also saw the actor who played &quot;Manimal&quot; in a hotel the same evening - Oh what a night!).<br /><br />I loved the Mase (from De La Soul) remix of &quot;Justice (Just Us)&quot; but it wasn't on the album (which I bought at the Toronto gig on cassette!!). Anyone know if it's difficult to find the 12&quot; now? <br /><br /><br /><br />Hi Smac: Mad re Toronto! I missed out on that trip (also their New York appearance with EMF a few days earlier) as I was in the studio mixing their second album. It was an eventful trip to say the least! Kermit, whose well documented druggy ways were beginning to get out of control, ended up going missing and everyone came back without him, causing all kinds of problems with EMI (in many ways this was the beginning of the end for the crew).<br /><br />Given that you actually saw the Assassins play their furthest gig from home, I think it's my obligation to send you a copy of 'Justice (Just Us)' - I'll dig one out for you in the next few days.

[greg wilson]

<br />Nah the best UK hip hop record of all time is 'Hip Hop Beat' by the Rapologists Featuring Whiz Kid on turntables.... brilliant/funny breakdance era tune... ask Uncle Greg he's bound to remember it.<br /><br />Not really hip hop per se but I'm also rather fond of Hardrock Soul Movement 'Double Def Fresh'...<br /><br /><br />Hi Topester: Yeah, that was the Mastermind guys, including Max and Dave, who later split from Herbie and formed the Hardrock Soul Movement.<br /><br />The Rapologists track also featured on the Street Sounds 'UK Electro' album - it was the only one on there that I didn't co- write / produce.

[smiley]

MIA:<br />The Cookie Crew<br />Kiss AMC ... did you have anything to do with these guys Greg? weren't they out on the same label as RRA? <br />&quot;... a touch of Bob James and a bit of U2...&quot; classic :o

[greg wilson]

<br />Manchesters (Northern) Hip Hop was generally wank though... <br /><br /><br />Hi pc: Sorry, but I can't ignore this comment. Music is all about opinions and if you're not into something, then that's your own prerogative, we all have different tastes, but to say that something is 'wank' suggests that it has no value whatsoever and this can only be taken as dissing those who the above statement concerns.<br /><br />Having spent five years working closely with the Rap Assassins, as both manager and producer, I'd like to think that they contributed something during that period. Regardless of what you might think of their music, the Assassins were always true to themselves, reflecting their own experience at a particularly difficult time for UK Hip Hop. Furthermore, their two albums document the black side of Manchester at the height of the Madchester period. They might not have been white and baggy, but they played their part to the max - something recognised by City Life magazine in Manchester when they selected their 'Killer Album' as one of the top 3 all-time Manc albums in the lead up to the millennium.<br /><br />I won't go into the prejudice and institutionalised racism they had to encounter at the time, which undoubtedly held them back from reaching their full potential, but I've no doubt that if they'd arrived on the scene maybe five years later they wouldn't have found so many doors closed and things might have been different. Thankfully their spirit lived on when Kermit hooked-up with Shaun Ryder to form Black Grape, with their debut album topping the charts (Black Grape also included Rap Assassins drummer / percussionist, Ged Lynch).<br /><br />I don't know if you've listened to much Assassins stuff, but if you have I can't understand how you can think that tracks like 'And It Wasn't A Dream' and 'Justice (Just Us)' would be 'wank' when they were widely acclaimed at the time as the most poignant recorded by a UK crew, with the lyrics truly reflecting the black British experience.<br /><br />I don't mean to get heavy on you, I'm sure it was just a throwaway comment, but , as you can see, this is something that I'm extremely passionate about, even now, all these years on. It's not just the Assassins either, there were plenty of other crews in the North trying to do their thing, but finding it an uphill struggle, so the way I see it is that anyone doing anything back then deserves some degree of credit for their endeavours, regardless of whether or not we liked their brand of British Hip Hop.<br /><br />I'd be more than happy to send you some Rap Assassins stuff if you're willing to re-evaluate. If not, fair enough, but I hope you understand that I had no option but to respond.

[greg wilson]

<br />MIA:<br />The Cookie Crew<br />Kiss AMC ... did you have anything to do with these guys Greg? weren't they out on the same label as RRA? <br />&quot;... a touch of Bob James and a bit of U2...&quot; classic :o<br /><br /><br />Hi smiley: Kiss AMC were the sister group to the Rap Assassins. Christine (Kiss) is Kermits sister, while AMC (Anne-Marie Copeland) was Christine's best mate.<br /><br />They only got involved as a bit of fun, when the guys needed some female backing at a gig in Manchester (before they had a deal). They weren't really into rap that much, prefering the indie groups of the time (which was seen as quirky for black girls). They liked people like The Smiths, The Bodines, The Sugarcubes etc.<br /><br />Anyway, the guys wrote a few tracks for them, and when EMI became interested (following the white label we put out - 'We Don't Care' / 'Kiss AMC'), it was the girls that they saw as the potential stars, so the guys had to take a back seat as 3 Kiss AMC singles, starting with 'Let-Off', were released before we finally got the (shoestring) budget to do the first Rap Assassins album.<br /><br />I won't go into the ins and outs, but EMI UK totally screwed up on 'A Bit Of U2', which should have been a big hit (if only for the, then, original use of the U2 sample). It did however become a big hit in Holland and Belgium.<br /><br />Following their third single, 'My Docs', Kiss AMC parted company with EMI and also the Assassins (who were now busy doing their own album), but they did releases another single, 'Circles', though A&amp;M.

[pas1971]

I remember having &quot;justice - just us&quot; taped off the Peel Show, liked it a lot. The rapper (Kermit ???) had a great atmospheric voice.<br />And playing &quot;a bit of U2&quot; out......a lot!

[pas1971]

Roots Manuva is top of the pile easily though for me. Fantastic production, ace voice and for once in hip hop, classic lyrics. Anyone see the vid. for &quot;Winess...&quot;? Hilarious, it featured our Rodney cheating at a primary school sports day.

[pc]

<br /><br /><br />http://www.rapassassins.f9.co.uk/ukhiphop.jpg<br /><br />Always thought Richie Rich,looked rather cool in this photo...<br />

[pc]

<br /><br />Manchesters (Northern) Hip Hop was generally wank though... <br /><br /><br />Hi pc: Sorry, but I can't ignore this comment. Music is all about opinions and if you're not into something, then that's your own prerogative, we all have different tastes, but to say that something is 'wank' suggests that it has no value whatsoever and this can only be taken as dissing those who the above statement concerns.<br /><br />Having spent five years working closely with the Rap Assassins, as both manager and producer, I'd like to think that they contributed something during that period. Regardless of what you might think of their music, the Assassins were always true to themselves, reflecting their own experience at a particularly difficult time for UK Hip Hop. Furthermore, their two albums document the black side of Manchester at the height of the Madchester period. They might not have been white and baggy, but they played their part to the max - something recognised by City Life magazine in Manchester when they selected their 'Killer Album' as one of the top 3 all-time Manc albums in the lead up to the millennium.<br /><br />I won't go into the prejudice and institutionalised racism they had to encounter at the time, which undoubtedly held them back from reaching their full potential, but I've no doubt that if they'd arrived on the scene maybe five years later they wouldn't have found so many doors closed and things might have been different. Thankfully their spirit lived on when Kermit hooked-up with Shaun Ryder to form Black Grape, with their debut album topping the charts (Black Grape also included Rap Assassins drummer / percussionist, Ged Lynch).<br /><br />I don't know if you've listened to much Assassins stuff, but if you have I can't understand how you can think that tracks like 'And It Wasn't A Dream' and 'Justice (Just Us)' would be 'wank' when they were widely acclaimed at the time as the most poignant recorded by a UK crew, with the lyrics truly reflecting the black British experience.<br /><br />I don't mean to get heavy on you, I'm sure it was just a throwaway comment, but , as you can see, this is something that I'm extremely passionate about, even now, all these years on. It's not just the Assassins either, there were plenty of other crews in the North trying to do their thing, but finding it an uphill struggle, so the way I see it is that anyone doing anything back then deserves some degree of credit for their endeavours, regardless of whether or not we liked their brand of British Hip Hop.<br /><br />I'd be more than happy to send you some Rap Assassins stuff if you're willing to re-evaluate. If not, fair enough, but I hope you understand that I had no option but to respond.<br /><br /><br />Where does an insoniac start when replying to such a defence!!!<br /><br />Firstly, i'll stand by my statement that alot of Northern, indeed UK Hip Hop was dreadful in the late 80's.(I'll try not to get into wank semantics, and i never named the Rap Assasins)<br /><br />However there was alot of talent RRA included, although they werent my cup of tea at the time (I'll will indeed reapraise them...(I still listen to the ICA cd sent to me through Martin (Kaos) from the EE board))<br /><br />At the time i was heavily into Hip hop, making a weekly trip by train to spinn-inn to buy records. I didnt give a monkeys where it came from as long as i liked it. <br /><br />What ever happened to Sefton Terminator anyway? Probably the best beatboxer i ever heard.....and he was Northern.

[mattm]

<br /><br />What ever happened to Sefton Terminator anyway? Probably the best beatboxer i ever heard.....and he was Northern.<br /><br /><br /><br />Not Sipho ( I probably have spelled this worng) <br />I rememebr him on teh tube &amp; still have the Big Audio Dynamiteremix he was on <br /><br />The man was a Linn

[Belson]

And to keep the thread flowing.......<br /><br />Kinda surprised that Blade hasn't had a mention yet. His earlier uptempo pieces that came out around the same time as Hijack are very collectable theses days - as well as being rather good. I find him fairly hard going of late, with his rhymes really revolving around the same themes, but there's no denying that 'The Unknown' with Mark B, was a benchmark in UK hiphop.<br /><br />As mentioned previously, Black Radical MkII was an angry fella. Interesting how his material got signed to Island via their Mango label. They must have thrown a fair chunk of cash at that project which pretty much fizzled without a trace, despite Westwood support.<br /><br />And after Caveman, I remember MCM had a fair throw of the dice, but once again spluttered and fell by the wayside.<br /><br />I guess the enduring problem UK hiphop has to try and shake off is the American view of it. What native Americans think of a music that was built out of their ghettos. The fact that they claim to live the sensationalised lives of what they rhyme about, and that a UK emcee really doesn't have a subject matter like theirs. And consequently a lot of British hiphop has tried to be clever or gimmicky - Nobster Nutts, Parlour Talk etc. Or succeeded as one hitters and then failed with a second release like Wildski and to a lesser extent Cookie Crew. Read an American view of the Grand Slam article about hiphop out of Nottingham - it's none too complimentary.<br /><br />Acts like Ty, Roots Manuva and Killa Kela are changing the tide though - attitudes are finally changing, aren't they?

[jahcoozi]

It's like Bill said at the begining its finally allright to like UK hip hop but from reading this thread there seems a fair number of peeps whove ALWAYS rooted for the homegrown, <br /><br />maybe today the kids aren't as precious. i mean things certainly seem to have plateaued in the US from a late eighties peak and what with hip hop being around 30 odd years I guess maybe one day our own UK hip hop version of the Stones might take the rhymmes back to New York... and they'll find Chuck D doing the weather on a local tv station

[RD]

yes jahcoozi, i think the talent was actually equal to today. the thing was almost everyone seemd to be paranoid that it wasnt as good as us. stuff. but that was the problem british hiphop is/was so very different, drawing on a broader range of influences &amp; cultural &amp; street values.<br /><br />back in the late 80s early 90s so many people heaped everything together &amp; dismissed the good stuff.<br /><br />i think now is the time because we've gone through drum &amp; bass &amp; uk garage, home grown styles which incorporate rap, the media &amp; general music buying public perceive it from a different perspective.<br />the market is broader but has more focus &amp; understanding.<br /><br />so theres a compilation or 2 for uncle greg.. uk hip hop the untold story!<br /><br /><br />

[rob.j]

Always loved MC Buzz B, great lyrics and delivery ( the last tree, how sleep the brave, never change and ahem....packet of peace )....no at all up on the new stuff.<br /><br />Ruthless Rap Assasins were pretty good to...eh greg and Gunshot was a wicked Inst. not keen on there delivery tho a bit to ragga for me.<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />rob

[Rich Hero]

Noone's mentioned the She Rockers yet? 'On Stage' is a classic, as are 'Born This Way' and 'Got To Keep On' by the Cookie Crew. And Kold Sweat, HUM, Music For Life...<br /><br />As for the Brotherhood, they were class. 'Wayz Of The Wize/Hit The Funk', the 'XXIII' EP... And 'Alphabetical Response' has really stood the test of time. They were also great on stage. They did this track to 'So You Want To Be Gangster' from Bugsy Malone that was hilarious - anyone know if it was ever recorded? And they didn't quite disappear after the LP - they put down the first few verses on 'Deejays And Emcees' on Mad Doctor X's 'Project X' EP which was a virtual who's who of a certain era of hip hop in the UK. I believe Doctor X himself was the guy behind the Freestylers, although I doubt he'd shout about it... ;)

[Belson]

<br />Noone's mentioned the She Rockers yet? 'On Stage' is a classic, as are 'Born This Way' and 'Got To Keep On' by the Cookie Crew. And Kold Sweat, HUM, Music For Life...<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />The She Rockers - glorious of Hot Wheels and disappeared from trace. Stone classic though - deffo.<br /><br />And the Prince Paul remix of Cookie Crews 'Born this way' was out of the top draw. Featured a rather large sample of the Cookie Monster screaming 'Really yummy cookie' - released on FFRR.

[jungle slut]

Can't say i'm a big fan of British Hiphop, i like Ty alot, and obviously the Grand Central stuff (is that really hiphop?) is fantastic. But people like MArk B and Blade, Skinnyman etc. really don't cut it at all imo. For me, Garage, Drum and Bass and Jungle are Britains hiphop. It was conceived in the UK and both scenes are incredibly healthy and creative. Although the quality is getting better all the time, I still find i can't take uk hiphop seriously. Although thats my gripe i suppose... I think the streets is damn good.

[Rich Hero]

Interesting. I think UK Garage, or Speed Garage, or whatever you call it has been quite healthy for hip hop in this country (besides Hijack finally getting paid - speaking of which loads of the US turntablists cite Mr Supreme as a major influence...). After starting as MC's in the junglist/rave sense many now seem to be making hip hop in everything but name (the quality is another matter...).<br /><br />As for Ty, I really don't think he's translated well to record. As a master of ceremonies he's great but I just don't think his abilities as a rapper cut the mustard. Same for the Streets, although they're both a good illustration of why 'UK hip hop' can be good, if it refers to British subect matter, when so much of the gangsta hip hop from the States is like reading a comic.

[rob.j]

<br />Can't say i'm a big fan of British Hiphop, i like Ty alot, and obviously the Grand Central stuff (is that really hiphop?) is fantastic. But people like MArk B and Blade, Skinnyman etc. really don't cut it at all imo. For me, Garage, Drum and Bass and Jungle are Britains hiphop. It was conceived in the UK and both scenes are incredibly healthy and creative. Although the quality is getting better all the time, I still find i can't take uk hiphop seriously. Although thats my gripe i suppose... I think the streets is damn good.<br /><br /><br /><br />the streets new tune leaves me cold as an eskimo ( and where has his brummy accent gone...too long in brixton me thinks ).....i must be getting jaded... :'(<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />rob

[greg wilson]

<br />I remember having &quot;justice - just us&quot; taped off the Peel Show, liked it a lot. The rapper (Kermit ???) had a great atmospheric voice.<br />And playing &quot;a bit of U2&quot; out......a lot!<br /><br /><br />Hi pas1971: The rapper on 'Justice (Just Us)' was Anderson aka 'Dangerous Hinds' (he was also the rapper on 'And It Wasn't A Dream'). The tragedy is that Anderson, who wrote some truly enlightened lyrics and certainly taught me a thing or two about the black experience, didn't continue making music after the Rap Assassins, when he had so much to offer. The third Assassin was Anderson's younger brother, Carson (DangerousC), who once again, despite his talent, didn't continue his career in Hip Hop.

[jungle slut]

@Rich Hero, your right, garage in particular has been v good for uk hiphop, the quality of mcing in garage is far superior to that in d&amp;b nowadays. Quite possibly because d&amp;B has gotten noticably quicker in the last couple of years (when I first got into it it was about 160 bpm, nowadays its 180-190) its become too quick to do double time chats over. they sound totally incoherent. Garage gives more space to the mc. The best UK hiphop dj is MK, heard him a few times, absolutely smacked it, a good balance of skills and tune selection.

[leebradlee]

Another early Manc release that was good at the time (haven't listened to it in time) was Hit Squad with MC Tunes on rapping/shouting duties.

[rob.j]

<br /><br />I remember having &quot;justice - just us&quot; taped off the Peel Show, liked it a lot. The rapper (Kermit ???) had a great atmospheric voice.<br />And playing &quot;a bit of U2&quot; out......a lot!<br /><br /><br />Hi pas1971: The rapper on 'Justice (Just Us)' was Anderson aka 'Dangerous Hinds' (he was also the rapper on 'And It Wasn't A Dream'). The tragedy is that Anderson, who wrote some truly enlightened lyrics and certainly taught me a thing or two about the black experience, didn't continue making music after the Rap Assassins, when he had so much to offer. The third Assassin was Anderson's younger brother, Carson (DangerousC), who once again, despite his talent, didn't continue his career in Hip Hop.<br /><br /><br />But someone else who had a hand in the above thankfully decided he wanted to get back into music full time........and has since shook up a few clubs......cannot wait for the round plastic results. ;)<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />rob

[greg wilson]

<br />Where does an insoniac start when replying to such a defence!!!<br /><br />Firstly, i'll stand by my statement that alot of Northern, indeed UK Hip Hop was dreadful in the late 80's.(I'll try not to get into wank semantics, and i never named the Rap Assasins)<br /><br />However there was alot of talent RRA included, although they werent my cup of tea at the time (I'll will indeed reapraise them...(I still listen to the ICA cd sent to me through Martin (Kaos) from the EE board))<br /><br />At the time i was heavily into Hip hop, making a weekly trip by train to spinn-inn to buy records. I didnt give a monkeys where it came from as long as i liked it. <br /><br />What ever happened to Sefton Terminator anyway? Probably the best beatboxer i ever heard.....and he was Northern.<br /><br /><br />Hi pc: pm me your address, I'd be more than happy to send you some CD's. I appreciate that at the time the Assassins appeared extremely leftfield to people who were into US Hip Hop (given their distinctive North Hulme style), so maybe they'll sound different to your ears all these years on.<br /><br />I saw Sefton last year, he's still in Manchester and said he'd been making some music on a Broken Beat vibe, although I haven't heard anything since.

[Rich Hero]

The best UK hiphop dj is MK, heard him a few times, absolutely smacked it, a good balance of skills and tune selection.<br /><br /><br />Definitely, and without just playing the same predict-a-set that most others settle for. I'd also put Jay 33 1/3 up there, with Shortee Blitz and the Enforcerz close behind (when they put their minds to it :) ).

[major swellings]

Morris Minor &amp; The Mayors:Stutter Rap ;D

[Belson]

<br />The best UK hiphop dj is MK, heard him a few times, absolutely smacked it, a good balance of skills and tune selection.<br /><br /><br />Definitely, and without just playing the same predict-a-set that most others settle for. I'd also put Jay 33 1/3 up there, with Shortee Blitz and the Enforcerz close behind (when they put their minds to it :) ).<br /><br /><br />Which is interesting in itself, because MK came to the leafy streets of Kingston Tuesday last and played an absolute shocker, by all accounts.<br /><br />Obvious track selection (so I was told, I was recording elsewhere that night) and apparently left the floor motionless, followed by half empty.<br /><br />Goes to show we can all have our off days.

[greg wilson]

<br />For me, Garage, Drum and Bass and Jungle are Britains hiphop. It was conceived in the UK and both scenes are incredibly healthy and creative. <br /><br /><br />Hi jungle slut: I think you make an excellent point.<br /><br />Before Hip Hop culture came to the fore in the UK during the 80's, British blacks were much more connected to their West Indian roots. Here in Liverpool I remember the street signs in Toxteth being all painted in the Jamaican colours and throughout the 70's, of course, Bob Marley was a major icon of black pride in this country. The American influence was obviously there, but the West Indian influence was stronger.<br /><br />The irony, of course, is that it was a Jamaican, Kool Herc, who gave birth to Hip Hop culture, which, from 1983 onwards, became the main focus for young blacks in the UK.<br /><br />Bristol immediately fused this new Hip Hop (Electro) sound with the existing Dub and Lovers Rock, which was then the main Reggae flavours, to form a new hybrid that would become known as Trip Hop (although I know that most of the people who pioneered the Bristol sound dislike this term).<br /><br />Then, a little later down the line, as you mentioned, a further fusion took place, with styles like Jungle, Drum &amp; Bass and UK Garage evolving, all of which link back to Electro, employing funkier rhythms, rather than the straight 4/4 of House.<br /><br />So in many respects, Hip Hop came back to its West Indian roots, resulting in a variety of new forms, and keeping the whole process moving ever onwards. <br /><br /><br /><br />

[greg wilson]

<br />Another early Manc release that was good at the time (haven't listened to it in time) was Hit Squad with MC Tunes on rapping/shouting duties.<br /><br /><br />Hi leebradlee: The Hit Squad also featured Gerald Simpson (A Guy Called). Gerald started out as a Hip Hop DJ with Tunes as his rapper. He had a little studio at his home, which he called The Attic, and Anderson and Carson from the Rap Assassins used to go around there and they'd all jam together. Kermit was one of the founder members of Broken Glass, the break crew who go right back to the very origins of Manchester Hip Hop culture.

[greg wilson]

<br />Morris Minor &amp; The Mayors:Stutter Rap ;D<br /><br /><br />Hi major swellings: If you're on that one, hows about The Evasions and 'The Wikka Rap'!

[jungle slut]

Hi Greg,<br />have you read bass culture by lloyd bradley? I think its an amazing book Its so comprehensive, and he touches upon exactly what you were saying, somebody needs to do the same style (analytical yet quite personal) for black british music since hiphop and electro began to make an impression. There was one attempt called 'all crew muss big up' but it was shit. Does anyone know of any other books which cover the subject.?<br />

[jahcoozi]

For me Pogo was the best DJ, his mixtapes were the biz so we have collectively mentioned nearly all styles except the dreaded and first fusion pre jungle etc.. HIP HOUSE ;D

[Vic20]

<br />For me Pogo was the best DJ, his mixtapes were the biz so we have collectively mentioned nearly all styles except the dreaded and first fusion pre jungle etc.. HIP HOUSE ;D <br /><br /><br />Swifty for me was the don imho. Pogo's been doing his thing for years and I gotta respect that. Bizzness was a good deejay too...

[leebradlee]

Greg,<br /><br />Did you go to the gig they did at the Boardwalk many moons ago. I seem to remember that Gerald was there but shortly after he fell out with the 808 lot for nabbing Pacific State (or something like that, apologies for any libellous comments).

[major swellings]

<br /><br />Morris Minor &amp; The Mayors:Stutter Rap ;D<br /><br /><br />Hi major swellings: If you're on that one, hows about The Evasions and 'The Wikka Rap'!<br /><br />Well, is there an instrumental?<br />Not to keen on the smurfs rapping(or was that another track?)<br />I draw the line at The Ex-Tras:Haven't been funked enough(the bassline winning over the comedy-effect of the smurfs)

[greg wilson]

<br />Hi Greg,<br />have you read bass culture by lloyd bradley? I think its an amazing book Its so comprehensive, and he touches upon exactly what you were saying, somebody needs to do the same style (analytical yet quite personal) for black british music since hiphop and electro began to make an impression. There was one attempt called 'all crew muss big up' but it was shit. Does anyone know of any other books which cover the subject.?<br /><br /><br /><br />Hi jungle slut: I haven't, but I will - thanks for the tip. BTW when was it published?<br /><br />Black British culture has been poorly documented to date, something I strongly feel needs urgently addressing. I'm trying to do my own bit via the electrofunkroots project, but there's so much more to be covered, things that came before, including influential 70's clubs like 'Crackers' in London, 'Rafters' in Manchester and 'The Timepiece' in Liverpool. In fact, if you dig into the history of any area with a significant black population, I'm sure you'd uncover influential figures who've been more or less completely forgotten.

[greg wilson]

<br />Greg,<br /><br />Did you go to the gig they did at the Boardwalk many moons ago. I seem to remember that Gerald was there but shortly after he fell out with the 808 lot for nabbing Pacific State (or something like that, apologies for any libellous comments).<br /><br /><br />Hi leebradlee: No, I wasn't at The Boardwalk gig.<br /><br />There's a recent interview with Gerald here that goes into the 'Pacific State' scenario:<br />http://www.littledetroit.net/Features/InterviewWithAGuyCalledGe.php?PHPSESSID=66f4c42f69 32caea8530fab275ecebea

[over]

including influential 70's clubs like 'Crackers' in London, 'Rafters' in Manchester and 'The Timepiece' in Liverpool. <br /><br />Hi Greg<br /><br />Whereabouts was The Timepiece? I grew up in Liverpool but not in this era, would be quite interested to know what kind of stuff was played, who, where etc

[greg wilson]

<br />Whereabouts was The Timepiece? I grew up in Liverpool but not in this era, would be quite interested to know what kind of stuff was played, who, where etc<br /><br /><br />Hi over: It was on Fleet Street, down the road from Liverpool Palace. It later became the 147 Snooker Club.<br /><br />It was a black club during the 70's. Contrary to what many people believe, it wasn't all Northern Soul in the North during this period, Northern Soul never caught on in Liverpool (or with the overwhelming majority of the black audience in general), the vibe being more about Funk. The DJ at THe Timepiece was someone I , as a youngster starting out, certainly looked up to - his name was Les Spaine, and he had the total respect of all the other DJ's on Merseyside, The Timepiece being one of the most upfront clubs, not just in Liverpool, but in the country.<br /><br />People travelled from far and wide to attend, in a similar way to what was happening at Wigan Casino, but with a black audience, These included US servicemen who were based in Britain during the time of the Vietnam war. Les would also travel to play at various American air bases. I don't know if you've ever seen a film called 'Coast To Coast', with Lenny Henry playing a mobile DJ in Liverpool who hooks-up with a US serviceman - well his character was inspired by Les. <br /><br />Les also started the first DJ pool in the UK in the mid 70's, and when he left The Timepiece, towards the end of the decade, he went to work for Motown in London, before moving on to Capital Records. He would later run his own promotions company (one of the tracks he worked on being 'White Lines') and manage Aswad during their most successful period.<br /><br />BTW Liverpool used to also have an excellent Monday night Soul show on BBC Radio Merseyside called 'Keep On Truckin'', presented by Terry Lennaine, which was absolutely essential listening for a generation of black music enthusiasts in the region.<br /><br />Having been such a great place for Funk, Soul and Disco during the 70's, Liverpool lost the plot completely in the 80's and fell way behind Manchester when it came to the dance scene - but that's another story.

[smiley]

lovin' it, this is def one of the best threads i've seen yet here (and lord knows there've been some real crackers!)<br />cheers for the link to the Gerald i/v. great stuff. i loved that first LP of his. stupid record label (again).<br />another one thought of was The Sindicut (sp?) from about 1991. &quot;Crack Business&quot; tuuune 8)<br />just got a demo from a local producer who's done a D&amp;B track with Spikey Tee from that crew. he's living over in Sydney now apparently...

[jahcoozi]

just wondered if there has been a UK No 1 featuring UK hip hop, Monie Love? memory fading, <br />was abit concerned to read that the Darkness were recording a version of Walk this Way with labelmates and Chavchamps Goldie Lookin Chain would not like the history books to credit them as first considering the talent listed on this thread can't remember who posted it but i dug out the Caveman LP and it sounds great<br /><br /><br />so Greg was the Timepeace the last majority black club in liverpool centre,? do you think the riots caused the lack of city wide opportunities for black clubs/promoters when i arrived in 88 there was much hostility to promoting black music from city venues( cept the Christians, every one was so proud of them at the time), we wanted to bring Misty in Roots but even the Uni wouldn't get involved ' trouble' they muttered<br /> I remember meeting some L8 rappers called the Pool stable and they had been hanging out with Davy Dmx who had some connection with L8 but you wouldn't have known outside a small circle, also the reggae producer Roy Cousins had a tiny lil shop which was always booming tunes but empty, its like the city got the FEAR and the blues on princess avenue were so hostile to white men more so it seemed than my experience of the sheffield dancehalls

[over]

Thanks Greg, quite interesting to hear about these places I was too young to attend at the time.<br /><br />I once bought a dodgy coat for a pint of Guiness whilst in the 147 so at least I know where you're talking about if nothing else :)<br /><br />Cheers though,

[rob.j]

Overlord X - 13 days in may.........was.....well.......hmmmmmmmm<br /><br />cheers <br /><br />rob

[Vic20]

<br />Overlord X - 13 days in may.........was.....well.......hmmmmmmmm<br /><br />cheers <br /><br />rob<br /><br /><br />Overlord X was pony..reminds me of Dave Pearce on Radio London with R.J Scratch who were both shite. Hijack and London Posse were definately reprezenting the real deal hip hop sound. <br /><br />Electro Rock is a good (naff?) style of bygone days...especially Mike Allen in his Haiwen T-shirt?..check Gary Beadle from Eastenders in E.R?<br /><br />

[Invincible Pigeon]

coo

[smiley]

&quot;Man-ches-taaa, the dance capital of England...&quot;<br />did MC Tunes bully 808 into working with him or what? i always suspected it was a drug deal gone wrong ;)

[greg wilson]

<br />so Greg was the Timepeace the last majority black club in liverpool centre,? do you think the riots caused the lack of city wide opportunities for black clubs/promoters when i arrived in 88 there was much hostility to promoting black music from city venues( cept the Christians, every one was so proud of them at the time), we wanted to bring Misty in Roots but even the Uni wouldn't get involved ' trouble' they muttered<br /> I remember meeting some L8 rappers called the Pool stable and they had been hanging out with Davy Dmx who had some connection with L8 but you wouldn't have known outside a small circle, also the reggae producer Roy Cousins had a tiny lil shop which was always booming tunes but empty, its like the city got the FEAR and the blues on princess avenue were so hostile to white men more so it seemed than my experience of the sheffield dancehalls <br /><br /><br />Hi jahcoozi: Nothing replaced The Timepiece. It carried on after Les Spaine left, but was never the same. 'Keep On Truckin'' on Radio Merseyside pretty much went the same way - Terry Lennaine, who used to pride himself on the upfront nature of the show began to slack off, focusing now on UK promos rather than US imports. I always remember driving to the Red Star depot at Lime St with Terry, just before 'Truckin'' was about to go on air, in order to pick up a US promo copy of Earth Wind &amp; Fire's 'All 'n All' album, which CBS had sent up. This was at a time when EW&amp;F were the hottest band on the planet as far as the black music scene was concerned. Going back to the station to sit in on the show, as I often did, and hear 'exclusive' plays on stuff like 'Runnin'', 'Jupiter' and the track that would subsequently become their biggest hit to date, 'Fantasy', was a real treat!<br /><br />Spaine and Lennaine - those were the days! <br /><br />By the turn of the 80's Terry was no longer doing 'Keep On Truckin'' and his successor took the show further into disrepute. Then came the Toxteth riots, and the majority of city centre clubs in Liverpool, already racist in their door policy, now felt they had the perfect excuse to refuse entry to black people. This, as you pointed out, was still the case when you arrived in Liverpool in '88, and although Liverpool has come a long way in recent years, its fallout is still there in some ways.<br /><br />I was working in Wigan Pier at the time of the riots. We used to always have strong support from Merseyside, especially Toxteth, on the Tuesday Jazz-Funk night. I was soon to take over the Wednesday at Legend, and in '82 I gave up my 4 night a week residency at the Pier to specialize in playing solely black music. <br /><br />I tried to get a night going in Liverpool, but many of the guys who came to the Pier and Legend from Liverpool were knocked-back in their home city. The clubs would always let a couple of blacks in to cover their backs, but this was just tokenism - there was no way they'd let in a 'crew' of black kids. In '83 I gave Liverpool another go, but this time I was summoned to the door by the bouncers, who told me, in no uncertain terms that they didn't want blacks (although they obviously didn't use that term) in 'their' club. It was all very sinister, and I decided I was on a hiding to nothing as far as Liverpool was concerned.<br /><br />Without the foundations of a strong club night and radio show, Liverpool slipped further and further behind Manchester, and would become more or less a wasteland as far as dance music was concerned througout the rest of the decade. Around the time you moved to Liverpool, you'd have had to go through the tunnel in order to find a decent underground dance night on Merseyside - this was Defhouse, which was run by Desa, who later had a monster hit with 'Is There Anybody Out There?' by The Bassheads (the name of the project coming from his then new club night at The Basement in Birkenhead).<br /><br />When Cream eventually became the 'superclub' in the 90's, it was all a bit weird really, as Liverpool had been so slow off the mark with regards to the House explosion (many, for a long time, viewing it as a Manc thing, which, given inter-city rivalries, was all the reason they needed to dismiss it out of hand). Now, all of a sudden, it was, apparently, this dance mecca!<br /><br />Anyway, I hope this fills in a few gaps for you and makes sense of some of your own impressions of the Liverpool black music scene (or rather, lack of it) when you were here.

[jahcoozi]

I couldn't believe the short sighted and negative side of the city. When I arrived, I remember going to a club around 88/89 called the Underground which was my first experience of both North Liverpool gangstas and e culture, (used to go to the Basement as well, for some reason you could buy Squidgy Afghan Black on that side of the water but only morrocan on the liverpool side???)<br />, twas run by the crowd who morphed into Cream, typically the dance floor was paving slabs nicked from Cantrell Farm or somewhere, John Kelly was about, shell suits, champagne and E's galore on a bloody monday night. all white crowd cept for PA's by artists, just like the 'ol jazz scene in the US 60/70 years before and as for a HIP HOP club night even the Beastie Boys caused a riot

[ladyboygrimsby]

I forgot about one particular new group: Infinite Livez on Big Dada. Just coming out now. Brilliant record. Harlesden P-Funk for want of a better description...

[greg wilson]

<br /><br /><br />Morris Minor &amp; The Mayors:Stutter Rap ;D<br /><br /><br />Hi major swellings: If you're on that one, hows about The Evasions and 'The Wikka Rap'!<br /><br /><br />Well, is there an instrumental?<br />Not to keen on the smurfs rapping(or was that another track?)<br />I draw the line at The Ex-Tras:Haven't been funked enough(the bassline winning over the comedy-effect of the smurfs)<br /><br /><br />Hi major swellings: think you might have 'Wikka Wrap' (its proper title) confused with the smurf infected 'Jam On Revenge (The Wikki Wikki Song)' by Newcleus.<br /><br />'Wikka Wrap' was a novelty track from '81, courtesy of Groove Records in London, which actually went big in the clubs. It featured someone rapping in the style of roving reporter, Alan Whicker, the chorus being sung to the tune of 'Funkin' For Jamaica'. BTW it did come with an instrumental version, called 'All Wrapped Up'.

[muzzerrrr]

the problem with uk hiphop was the desire to be like the americans and this affected their music, mainly because of the accent change when 'rapping'. even slick rick had a mojorly american influenced style. even with this style there were soem notibly good releases. e.g blade's lyrical maniac (1989). my favourite at the time, although released around 1993 nso forces' here we go/underground attack. the production on the track would still be in touch nowadays, and at the timemust have been pretty advanced. i feel nowadays tholugh uk hip hop has begun to diversify from the americanised sound, and diversify to its own sound rather than blend in with the us version prehaps creating an entirely differant genre of rap. this has alowed uk hiphop to create its own style and become indepndent, maybe gaining more respect form the us for' doing our own thing' than when we 'wanted to be like them'. this change in attitude within the uk hiphop industry has allowed the game to advance, with artist realising that they should be proud of their accents and british style, this has allowed the scene to spread accross the uk with rise of the scene notibaly in places such as manchester, sheffield and even scotland aswel as london. imy pick for best uk artist of current is jehst, with great lyrical abiliy ( i compare as the uks verision of nas) also the scene is boosted by artists such as blaktwang, roots manuva (recently collaboration with the french kings of hiphop sain super crew) and fallacy who all help to spread teh name of uk hiphop and reaching out to extra audiences both within the uk and outsid of it. the scene is constantly growing rapidly, with more and more artists coming through in the underground circuits e.g kyza, klashnekoff, braintax, hoodz underground, terrafirma, cappo, p brotehrs etc all bostering the uk sound. also recognition muct be given to blade for the being so determined and for his life story, along with his ability on the mic of course. i feel that we are yet to se the full potential of the evergrowing uk hiphop industry. the best i yet to come

[Critical Chris]

Shows how mad eclectic this forum is that you can discuss Camp Disco and British Underground Hip Hop, some interesting comments nice one Greg on explaining why Liverpool with such a large Black population seemingly has very little in the way of Black music representing.
A night out in Liverpool from my experience was more like Newcastle (no offense geordies) definately a whiteout music/door policy throughout the ninties.

Spent a lot of my youth listening to Hip Hop and still pick up titles here and there but as much as i got behind a lot the UK acts not one ever touched on the tunes by Marley Marl,Eric B & Rakim,BDP,Nice & Smooth,Ultramagnetic,45 King and i can real of plenty of the UK acts which i like but still nobody can compare to the New York originators i think it comes down to language and the vernacular people in New York can realy flow you meet people in the street in NYC who could just rap in there everyday chat UK mc's will always for me sound contrived in one way or another. I'm even less impressed with todays UK Hip Hop it sounds worse (but then again so does most of the US garbage) and i realy hate this trend of MC's who think they can sing?? What is that all about ?
Singing,Having a full band(ever since the Roots people feel having a band makes them Hip HOp??) being overly cockney/mockney having 10 dudes on one record,rapping realy fast will not make you better than the Americans (a 90's UK trend) it's not a race you only succeed in isolating your audience none of this will get you even close to the magic of Eric B for president.
Whilst digging through record crates in NYC i can say i never once seen a UK Hip Hop record from the 80's till now and i wouldn't count Slick Rick he's as new York as Biz Markie !

But for sure the Jungle scene realy shook up the Hip Hop crowd right back to the Zulu's in the bronx who embraced it as another form of Hip Hop, your sure to hear D&B at a Rock Steady B Boy gathering nowadays.

If i was to choose a UK act of the bat i'd pick the Demon Boys above all.

Best thing the Uk gave to Hip Hop 1. The Chrome Angelz Graffiti Crew (there influence on the International Graffiti culture is astounding) 2.Scratch DJ's

[Martin Red]

It featured someone rapping in the style of roving reporter, Alan Whicker.

That's a funny record :)

Whicker's World, where Alan travelled the world, well, parts of the world where white rich british ex-pats lived anyway.