PC/laptop DJing - wot's it all about?

[D C]

I see on another thread about CD DJing that Mr Wilson has gone down the route of laptop DJing. So come on Mr Wilson, what's all this about? I've never seen a DJ play on a lap top before and can imagine the versatility. What do you use and how do you use it. I've read about Nicky Holloway using some form of lap-top based system a few years back but never actually heard anything used in anger. is it the way forward? Should i be converting my collection to MP3s? and taking a nice and compact over the shoulder attache case containing a laptop to gigs instead of breaking my back carrying all that vinyl? <br /><br />DC

[major swellings]

Some good points<br />-You can bring loads of tracks without breaking your back<br />-Make your own edits or tracks(and play them out the same night)<br />-CD-players/laptops can be used as a third deck(cueing up will go faster)<br />-Your precious copy of Black Cock(which you bought on ebay for a zillion dollars)can be copied over to cd.<br />Personally Iprefer cd-players to Final Scratch and Traktor etc..<br />Think it´s better to have them as an addition(third and fourth deck)

[D C]

Cheers Major,<br /><br />I've been using CD's for ages and understand their versatility (made copies of valuable records to play out and made re-edits using Soundforge &amp; Acid).<br /><br />But what I want to know is what can you do on a laptop that you can't do with CD or Vinyl (apart from not breaking your back)?

[Jolyon]

It's the sound quality that puts me off...though I have to say I am seriously considering going down the laptop route for bar gigs in the future...how can tell at that volume anyway?<br /><br />what IS the best programme?

[Topester]

I know its terribly luddite of me and everything but have to say I think its all just a bit gay (and not in the respectable manlove garage/Cock/Queer Nation sense either)<br /><br />

[rob.j]

<br />It's the sound quality that puts me off...though I have to say I am seriously considering going down the laptop route for bar gigs in the future...how can tell at that volume anyway?<br /><br />what IS the best programme? <br /><br /><br />I believe Traktor is the norm.<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />rob

[major swellings]

<br />Cheers Major,<br /><br />I've been using CD's for ages and understand their versatility (made copies of valuable records to play out and made re-edits using Soundforge &amp; Acid).<br /><br />But what I want to know is what can you do on a laptop that you can't do with CD or Vinyl (apart from not breaking your back)?<br /><br /><br />If you´re quick at hand, and are familiar with your programs you can make those edits while you play, though I think it sounds more like a hassle than a bonus.<br />+laying loops of tracks on top of each other<br />-timestretching<br />-go from one place in the track to another (on beat)<br /><br />Probably loads more stuff too but I shouldn´t try to answer this as I´ve only tried it twice...

[D C]

Has anyone used a lap top to DJ? (Greg, where are you?)<br /><br />Doesn't the sound quality depend on the sound card. I would assume the quality would be as good or if not better than CD.<br /><br />Could you record your set onto the hardrive at the same time as playing?

[Al Kent]

Sound quality is definately the issue here. CDs are bad enough, but MP3's just going too far I reckon. They really do sound shit.

[rob.j]

Forget Mp3's for a moment.<br /><br />What about recording your records to a high quality program as WAVS and then playing said tunes from Laptop with a decent soundcard.<br /><br />These should sound ok at the very least.<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />rob

[mekanikalgirl]

We've been using Traktor to supplement our DJing when We go out as soul mekanik and it works well as long as youre not playing Mp3s with a low Bitrate it seems . Vinyl is STILL the main part of what we do but we are not scared to play cds or Mp3s with the records.<br />I've tried Final Scratch and its very good too. I much prefer to record vinyl onto CD to give us plenty of creative options. Vinyl IS and will always remain our source as it sounds better on a decent system. 8)

[rob.j]

<br />We've been using Traktor to supplement our DJing when We go out as soul mekanik and it works well as long as youre not playing Mp3s with a low Bitrate it seems . Vinyl is STILL the main part of what we do but we are not scared to play cds or Mp3s with the records.<br />I've tried Final Scratch and its very good too. I much prefer to record vinyl onto CD to give us plenty of creative options. Vinyl IS and will always remain our source as it sounds better on a decent system. 8)<br /><br /><br />Using Trakor is it easier as a two man operation<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />rob

[mekanikalgirl]

Its a two seater ;D<br />

[Al Kent]

<br />Forget Mp3's for a moment.<br /><br />What about recording your records to a high quality program as WAVS and then playing said tunes from Laptop with a decent soundcard.<br /><br />These should sound ok at the very least.<br /><br />cheers<br /><br />rob<br /><br /><br />That's a different matter and gets my blessing.

[Blackshore]

<br /><br />what IS the best programme? <br /><br /><br />Has anyonr tried Ableton Live? - i had a look but couldn't get my head round it

[bgpz]

A few years ago, a mate wrote some software called Hummingbird that allowed you to mix digital audio files, loop them, etc. and then combined that with an earlier project called Autopilot (dancing robot controlled by computer input, he used to let anyone looking at it have a go when playing out, being that kinda guy).<br /><br />I played with it in various incarnations, was great for doing bootlegs &quot;on the fly&quot;, you could also trigger loop points and different start cue points, which seemed to be perfect for re-editing stuff in real time. I think it could handle wav and mp3 files, too.<br /><br />The last I heard, he'd made the Hummingbird project an open source effort, so anyone could download it, use it, and collaborate on improving it if they were sufficiently geeky.<br /><br />Both things got merged into something called &quot;Frankie The Robot&quot;, whic he and some others still play out with, but the websites seem to have gone down :(<br /><br />

[Jolyon]

matthew has Frankie The Robot...good fun

[ladyboygrimsby]

<br />A few years ago, a mate wrote some software called Hummingbird that allowed you to mix digital audio files, loop them, etc. and then combined that with an earlier project called Autopilot (dancing robot controlled by computer input, he used to let anyone looking at it have a go when playing out, being that kinda guy).<br /><br />I played with it in various incarnations, was great for doing bootlegs &quot;on the fly&quot;, you could also trigger loop points and different start cue points, which seemed to be perfect for re-editing stuff in real time. I think it could handle wav and mp3 files, too.<br /><br />The last I heard, he'd made the Hummingbird project an open source effort, so anyone could download it, use it, and collaborate on improving it if they were sufficiently geeky.<br /><br />Both things got merged into something called &quot;Frankie The Robot&quot;, whic he and some others still play out with, but the websites seem to have gone down :(<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />They came round to my flat to give me a demo of it. It's great.

[bgpz]

Nice one! Out of interest, d'you think it'd be something you would use playing out?<br /><br />Note to self: buy decent home computer to play with such stuff... *sigh*

[greg wilson]

<br />I see on another thread about CD DJing that Mr Wilson has gone down the route of laptop DJing. So come on Mr Wilson, what's all this about? I've never seen a DJ play on a lap top before and can imagine the versatility. What do you use and how do you use it. I've read about Nicky Holloway using some form of lap-top based system a few years back but never actually heard anything used in anger. is it the way forward? Should i be converting my collection to MP3s? and taking a nice and compact over the shoulder attache case containing a laptop to gigs instead of breaking my back carrying all that vinyl? <br /><br />DC<br /><br /><br />Hi DC: When I made the decision that I was going to start deejaying again my options were to buy a new set of 1200's, get a CD set-up, or take the laptop route. Given that most of the music I've bought in the past 15 years has been on CD, I narrowed it down to the latter two. I consulted with a friend, who advises me on technical matters, and he recommended a system called PCDJ, which is what I bought: http://www.visiosonic.com/<br /><br />I was obviously concerned about any noticeable deficiency in sound quality, but he assured me that providing I bought a good soundcard and, as mekanikalgirl pointed out, didn't record my records and CD's in at a low bitrate, it'd be fine. Given that he has his own recording studio and is the type of person that pays great attention to detail when it comes to sound, I was totally reassured. When I've used it over a club system nobody has ever suggested there's any problem re sound quality.<br /><br />I'm well happy with PCDJ, it's obviously a bit of a slog to record everything into it, but the benefits, as stated elsewhere, are a plenty. There's a hardware controller, similar to what a CD DJ would use, complete with vari-speed (unlike decks, you have the option of speeding up or slowing down tracks without altering the pitch). Not being the most technical person in the world, I still haven't put my head to all the various functions, which I'm sure will result in the invention of new DJ skills, just as scratching and cutting came from the use of turntables. You're probably best visiting the website to find out exactly what it can do.<br /><br />As well as the laptop, I also use a reel-to-reel and vinyl when I go out deejaying. I like the idea of bringing elements of the past, present and future together. It's the same with the music I play, which is based around the early 80's stuff I was known for at Legend and Wigan Pier, but is sprinkled with re-edits and newer tunes, to take it away from being a totally retro approach.<br /><br />I know that for some people, anything other than strictly vinyl amounts to sacrilege, but I suppose from a personal point of view it's always been more about the music played than the format it's played from.<br /><br />

[fabiofal]

<br /><br />I see on another thread about CD DJing that Mr Wilson has gone down the route of laptop DJing. So come on Mr Wilson, what's all this about? I've never seen a DJ play on a lap top before and can imagine the versatility. What do you use and how do you use it. I've read about Nicky Holloway using some form of lap-top based system a few years back but never actually heard anything used in anger. is it the way forward? Should i be converting my collection to MP3s? and taking a nice and compact over the shoulder attache case containing a laptop to gigs instead of breaking my back carrying all that vinyl? <br /><br />DC<br /><br /><br />Hi DC: When I made the decision that I was going to start deejaying again my options were to buy a new set of 1200's, get a CD set-up, or take the laptop route. Given that most of the music I've bought in the past 15 years has been on CD, I narrowed it down to the latter two. I consulted with a friend, who advises me on technical matters, and he recommended a system called PCDJ, which is what I bought: http://www.visiosonic.com/<br /><br />I was obviously concerned about any noticeable deficiency in sound quality, but he assured me that providing I bought a good soundcard and, as mekanikalgirl pointed out, didn't record my records and CD's in at a low bitrate, it'd be fine. Given that he has his own recording studio and is the type of person that pays great attention to detail when it comes to sound, I was totally reassured. When I've used it over a club system nobody has ever suggested there's any problem re sound quality.<br /><br />I'm well happy with PCDJ, it's obviously a bit of a slog to record everything into it, but the benefits, as stated elsewhere, are a plenty. There's a hardware controller, similar to what a CD DJ would use, complete with vari-speed (unlike decks, you have the option of speeding up or slowing down tracks without altering the pitch). Not being the most technical person in the world, I still haven't put my head to all the various functions, which I'm sure will result in the invention of new DJ skills, just as scratching and cutting came from the use of turntables. You're probably best visiting the website to find out exactly what it can do.<br /><br />As well as the laptop, I also use a reel-to-reel and vinyl when I go out deejaying. I like the idea of bringing elements of the past, present and future together. It's the same with the music I play, which is based around the early 80's stuff I was known for at Legend and Wigan Pier, but is sprinkled with re-edits and newer tunes, to take it away from being a totally retro approach.<br /><br />I know that for some people, anything other than strictly vinyl amounts to sacrilege, but I suppose from a personal point of view it's always been more about the music played than the format it's played from.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I totally agree with Greg; life is a comprmise and the result should be getting the best from borh sides of the coin in order to have a newer and more powerful...currency. <br />I think that the most important aspect, however, is trying to avoid the excess.<br /><br />Ciao,<br />Fabio

[D C]

Thanks Greg - what sort of minimum spec laptop do you need for this PCDJ thing? And is it stable? - the last thing I'd want to happen is for the thing to crash mid gig with the crowd chanting 'wanker, wanker'<br /><br />Will you be using it when you do your mix for mine &amp; JJ's internet radio show?<br /><br />DC

[greg wilson]

<br />Thanks Greg - what sort of minimum spec laptop do you need for this PCDJ thing? And is it stable? - the last thing I'd want to happen is for the thing to crash mid gig with the crowd chanting 'wanker, wanker'<br /><br />Will you be using it when you do your mix for mine &amp; JJ's internet radio show?<br /><br />DC<br /><br /><br />I'd have to ask my mate the first question (minimum spec laptop). I went for a Sony Vaio, which I'm well pleased with.<br /><br />To test the whole thing and get used to working with the equipment, I took on a weekly bar gig here in Liverpool (also to re-acclimatize myself to being out at night again - I'd been completely detatched from the club scene for a number of years). I'm happy to report that the Vaio has never crashed on me. I once had a problem with the controller, but you can also do everything from keystrokes, bypassing the controller completely, so it was easy enough to get around (the manufacturers exchanged the faullty controller for a new one).<br /><br />As back-up I took a portable CD with me, along with some pre-recorded stuff, but I haven't had to use it - the idea being that if the laptop crashed I could still have music playing as I re-booted the system. Now, when I'm doing a club gig, I always take a box of vinyl with me anyway, so if anything went wrong I could continue without any major problem and hopefuly avoid those dreaded 'wanker' chants!<br /><br />Forgot to mention, I don't know how it works with other systems, but with PCDJ you have a list of 'record boxes' to the side of the screen. The box you want to work from is open in the main area, with a list of it's contents (these can either be in artist, title or bpm order). You can obviously move from box to box as you're working. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

[blackwax]

kerri chandler is doin alot with laptops <br /><br />check this article from pcdj<br /><br />http://www.pcdj.com/News/kerri.asp

[Padraig]

Francois K played off Traktor at Fabric in January of last year. If he's still using it when he plays there next Saturday I suppose that'll tell whether he thinks it's any good.<br /><br />Steve Bug, Richie Hawtin, Bryan Zentz and Magda play totally off Final Scratch these days. If the sample rate if high enough it doesn't seem to be a problem. Although it will never be as good as vinyl.<br /><br />The new version of Final Sctrach was developed in association with Native so basically FS and Traktor has now merged into one package.<br /><br />Hawtin and Magda use Ableton Live 2 loads as well. When I went to the demo of the new Allen &amp; Heath x-one 92 Richie was using the MIDI controls on the mixer to trigger loads of effects without having to go near the laptop. All very cool stuff.<br /><br />If you want to hear Ableton being used to it's full potential go and see the Optimo guys from the Sub Club in Glasgow. Here's a tracklisting for one of their mixes which I think was done on the first version of the software. They are playing at Crash and Plastic People quite soon.<br /><br />http://www.optimo.co.uk/optimocd4.htm<br /><br />

[Neuropolitique]

<br />Sound quality is definately the issue here. CDs are bad enough, but MP3's just going too far I reckon. They really do sound shit.<br /><br />Not entirely true my friend.<br />It all depends on how big the file is. How many megabytes in other words.<br />Most songs in my collection are 5mb upwards. Those that are 2-3mb do tend to have that 'sampled' timbre and you would have trouble with them on a sound system - rather like badly pressed vinyl.<br />There's no problem with shit sounding mp3 files - just ask my neighbour.<br />Cogger out.

[Al Kent]

You're silly. A 5mb MP3 sounds as good as an 80MB AIFF file??<br /><br />Is your neighbour quite knowledgeable about these things?

[Neuropolitique]

Silly?<br /><br />mmm, I think not.<br /><br />ps, my neighbour doesn't like me.<br /><br />over to you Batman slippers

[matthew]

i've djed on a big system (Mass main room) with a laptop (Frankie the Robot software) Whereas Frankie is an amazing DJ tool, the MP3 files did sound terrible next to vinyl (and yes Neuro, they were all about 5-7MB). IMO .wav files are the way forward, though to be fair, i have not tried 320kbps MP3s

[Al Kent]

my neighbour doesn't like me.<br /><br />I'm not surprised.

[Neuropolitique]

Get back to your desk dear.

[Al Kent]

What's a desk dear?

[D C]

With Batman &amp; Catwoman scratching eachothers eyes out, can we get Greg or someone to mediate.<br /><br />I thought that it was the quality (kps)not file size (mb) that was important or have I got it arse about face.<br /><br />Isn't something of 128kps or above supposed to be of CD quality?<br /><br />DC

[Neuropolitique]

That's what I meant, old pedant face up there is obviously bored.<br /><br />Thank you

[Al Kent]

No, not bored. Just slightly more knwledgeable it would seem than your good self.<br /><br />To put it quite simply - An MP3 is a highly compressed file. To compress a file you have to ditch a lot of digital information. The higher rate obviously doesn't have to lose AS MUCH, but it still loses a lot of quality.<br /><br />Sorry if I offended you Neuro, I mistakenly thought you had a sense of humor.

[Neuropolitique]

Humour.

[major swellings]

GODDAMN!!!LET´S SEE SOME BLOOD, YOU PUSSIES!!!!! ;D

[D C]

So................(deep breath) what's the best format to record on GIF, AIFF, WIFF, SNIFF, R SWIPE, MP3, J-PEG or WAV?<br /><br />Or is still best to play records?<br /><br />What about cassette?<br /><br />Oh fuck it, I'm giving up DJing!!!

[Neuropolitique]

DC, I guess it depends on the sound system.<br />You can play mp3s in a bar type gig. Most people are fitted with human ears and therefore won't hear the imperfections of mp3 files.<br />

[major swellings]

WAV is obviously the best, though it will take loads of space.<br />Should be pretty close to the original sound if you record from vinyl, then render your WAVS to MP3(160 or 192 and upwards).Works for me.

[arfa mind]

though mp3 is a lossy compression, if rendered well with high rates it can sound reasonably accurate but in the wrong hands it can sound evil<br /><br />however i would suggest that y'all have a look at mpeg4 audio format.. definitely a quality item<br /><br />peace

[arfa mind]

Posted by: Neuropolitique &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Posted on: Today at 03:25:58pm <br />Get back to your desk dear. <br /><br />shouldn't that be <br /><br />&quot;get back to your decks, dear&quot;

[Neuropolitique]

very good Afra.<br />very good

[Neuropolitique]

Arfa, even

[mekanikalgirl]

Lets face it . . . <br />We all love our precious vinyl <br />thats why we're here<br />But just you try and lug two massive bags of records across two railway platforms when your train is about to leave and its the last one to London for your second gig of the weekend, youre tired and still up from the night before cause it was a killer gig!<br />Thats when you think . . . <br />I could put 10,000 records on my ipod<br />and carry my laptop in my other bag . just taking one medium sized bag for records(special ones)<br />and save my back<br /><br />hmmmmmm ???

[Neuropolitique]

...and you can pick up things you CAN'T get on vinyl anymore.<br />But that would be illegal.<br />And none of us here would dream of breaking the law.<br />Would we?

[fabiofal]

<br />...and you can pick up things you CAN'T get on vinyl anymore.<br />But that would be illegal.<br />And none of us here would dream of breaking the law.<br />Would we?<br /><br /><br />Yes I would

[smokebelch]

OK, so this has been done to death but I can't help myself.<br /><br />It's just no good unless your using either 24bit 96KHz uncompressed digital audio or vinyl played on a turntable fitted with air-bearings and a handbuilt Japanese moving coil catridge.<br /><br />Tee hee.<br /><br />I love analogue and I'm constantly amazed by things digital. What is a boy to do..<br /><br />Andrew

[Neuropolitique]

Is that with or without Gymbal Suspension?

[smokebelch]

It can be with whatever you like as long as a 'star audiophile'* has declared that the feature will bring extra 'presence' , a 'wider sound stage' or something equally fluffy sounding. Bear in mind that cables must be of silver or gold, connectors plated with the rarest possible metals and bearings fashioned from precious stones or thin air.<br /><br />* NOTE: Said audiophile character must not have any experience in electronics greater than (mis)constructing a burglar alarm kit from Maplins then having to send it to their workshops to have it fixed.<br /><br />Andrew<br /><br />Disclaimer: Views expressed are neither those of my employers, parents or indeed myself, but of alcahol induced dementia. :P

[Neuropolitique]

Fantastic Andrew, if I had a glass of champagne to hand it would be yours.<br />It puts me in mind of that very prophetic 'Not the nine o'clock news' sketch, circa 1983 - &quot;Hi-Fi Shop.&quot;<br /><br />Cogger.