The scene without a name

[greg wilson]

I would like us to get to play our kind of music to people under 30 - in a club environment.

really? i dont care who likes it as long as someone does. young people can fuck off if they dont like the music.

I've just been replying to the following quotes on the gatecrasher thread and thought I'd raise this as a new subject.

One of the conclusions I've made on my travels is the fact that because there isn't a name for this whole Disco, Boogie, Cosmic, Space, Balearic, Electro-Funk, Re-Edits type vibe, a lot of younger people, who really like it, having stumbled upon a one-off night, go away without being able to explain what they've just been listening to, and not knowing where else they can hear this music.

There's no doubt that this has stifled things somewhat. During recent years I've seen some really good nights go under because local support has dropped off and there haven't been enough people coming from outside the immediate area to sustain the night.

On one hand, it's quite good that there isn't a name, but on the other, this hardly helps things grow. When I weigh it all up, I think it would be beneficial if there was a name that was used to describe the groove based approach we're taking.

This would help people identify these type of nights and encourage them to travel. It's fine for us, who use these forums, to keep track of what's going on, but the majority of people rarely go near sites like this, and they're hardly going to find out what's happening on a more underground level by reading Mixmag.

I think back to specialist scenes like Northern Soul and Jazz-Funk, where people thought nothing of travelling 50 miles or further to hear the type of music they were into. There was a network of clubs that benefited each other, with people from, say, Leeds travelling to Nottingham, or Brummies heading to London and Manchester etc etc.

This is what's missing from todays underground, but, I'm sure, if a younger age group became more aware of what's going on we'd see plenty of travellers. They'd certainly bring a fresh energy to everything.

I really believe that something's just around the corner, and that there's going to be a real movement towards 'our music' in 2008. As I said in the other thread, there's definitely been a noticeable increase in people in their early 20's coming up to me to say how much they like the music I'm playing.

I'm often asked the question - what is this music? But there's no quick answer and I have to reel off a whole heap of 'genres', which only confuses matters.

I'm very interested to hear what other peoples take on this is?

[djmonz]

BEARDO disco!!!!

[fastasleepclub]

I really believe that something's just around the corner, and that there's going to be a real movement towards 'our music' in 2008. As I said in the other thread, there's definitely been a noticeable increase in people in their early 20's coming up to me to say how much they like the music I'm playing.

I'm often asked the question - what is this music? But there's no quick answer and I have to reel off a whole heap of 'genres', which only confuses matters.


I think this thread has been brewing for a while, Greg - there's been a lot of posts recently, with regard to some of us (myself included) feeling like we're waiting for something to happen with all of this....like 2007 has been something of a holding pattern. But, as comments from a few other folks have shown, while perhaps agreeing with that sentiment overall, they have been quick to point out that there is indeed still good music around, worthy of our attention - which I find reassuring to some degree. I had been quite genuinely worried about this year, as compared to some others.

It seems as if it would almost be easier, from a pigeon-holing perspective, if this music - from the "scene with no name" - could be somehow divorced from it's heritage. But in some ways, it's actually refreshingly mind boggling just how far reaching that heritage is - unashamedly touting straight up disco roots, recasting it with some of disco's latter-day mutant offspring (Italo, Electro...and whatever else), while also finding room for acoustic touches, elements of psychedelia, and the breaks culture that birthed hip-hop and the edit. It's such a grab bag of influences, and all ones that mean different things to different people. Yet there's a common denominator to it too, although you couldn't necessarily put your finger on it. Which is leading the more uninformed journalists to currently infer guilt by association (this act are on this particular label, this lot have a remix by this certain person, oh look this guy's from Norway etc. etc.).

Something is definitely just around the corner - and it's potentially something good. And it's something we're all within a certain proximity of, too.

Which, if you think about it in those terms, is quite exciting really....

Let's all vote no on "Nu Disco" though. Doesn't do it justice at all.

[deepconcentration]

not to disagree with the lot of you, but doesn't the act of naming it predict it's doom?

i'm cool with calling it a rather undefined "eclectic". it seems to be everything but mainstream. and sometimes, it's mainstream too.

[Donger]

not to disagree with the lot of you, but doesn't the act of naming it predict it's doom?


just thinking this

in a way, it usually stunts growth by narrowly defining something, that wasn't easily defined previously

[fabiofal]

not to disagree with the lot of you, but doesn't the act of naming it predict it's doom?

this is our destiny, mate, ha ha! jokes apart, it's the battle of evermore, no? a scene becomes huge, goes mainstream and then all get back to the underground, for the next resurrection... I wouldn't fear this sort of things and wouldn't keep it a masonry-like affaire, for one of the main dj's aim is spreading what you like and educate people.
I'm very glad that youngsters ;) like what you play, Greg, and ask for what they're listening to: this is a great hope for making more and more (young and not) people aware of what greatness lies under their feet.
And don't fear the future: underground will never die, ha ha ;).

[melodycrochet]

How about Swingin' on the Flippety-Flop.

The kids will love that.

[Phil Potter]

very interesting post Mr. Wilson.

i'm thinking that if it develops into something substantial enough, it will name itself.

hearing about the interest of the younger crowd is really great news.

[kevvy-k]

BEARDO disco!!!!

Is anyone else uncomfortable (maybe slightly too strong a word.. but you know what I mean) by the gender exclusivity implicit in the bearded references? Aren't things much more fun when they're not a 'boys club'?

Nope? No one? ....sorry.

[fomo]

yes i have always looked upon this as ececltic/esoteric

have heard the term nu-disco used in many vinyl stores.

lets call it gregs music:cool:

[machinesoul]

As usual a thought provoking post Greg and some interesting contributions from others. I agree that often the music played in ' the scene with no name' is appreciated by younger dancers. I had a bloke a few months ago come upto me whilst Playing Zazu and ask what sort of music this was, because he hadn't heard anything else like it before ( I think he was being complimentary, but Captain Starlight is a bit of a Marmite record :) ).
However, I have doubts about giving the music we play with an overarching 'one size fits all' label.I think such a label is likely to be thrust upon us some time in the future by what's left of The UK Dance Music press.In fact I'm surprised 'the scene' (even saying that leaves me feeling uncomfortable) hasn't been picked up already by Mixmag for example. Although I know there was the Norwegian cover on IDJ fairly recently.
As has been mentioned by others I'm not sure it is a scene, as Andrew has said although there are common musical roots to a lot of the music played there are also huge stylistic differences.For example if I come to see you play Greg I'm unlikely to hear the same sort of records as I would at a Prins Thomas gig or an Idjuts gig aren't I? is it possible or indeed advantageous to constrain such diversity with one label.
I don't have any of the answers, I'm just throwing out a few ideas for discussion.

[s_busby_uk]

I always used to tell people I was playing "electric soul", after the Unabombers' own classification.

I'm quite pleased to find i'm not the only person who has this problem explaining my style to people though! Nowadays I resort more unofficially to "disco" (and sometime srather reluctantly to "nu-disco").

After listening to Maurice Fulton in the Rizla bit at Bestival I decided that his own brand of electro\house\techno and disco could be referred to as "tesco" (techno + disco), but I guess that's just silly :P

[The Velvet Fog]

Broken/disco/techno/edit - I call it 'brisket'

[tallguy]

Tesco!! ha ha that takes me back.. :)

I'm sure Rocky joked about this back in the day or is my mind too addled to remember clearly..?

A distinction does need to be made in my opinion, not all clubbers know the score, and this is a good scene which deserves more followers.

I think it's obvious that a name is needed given how the shops have been trying to describe this stuff.

Electric Soul is good..

On an LNA tip - what about nightmusic ? ;)

[*Blackshore]

Tesco!! ha ha that takes me back.. :)

I'm sure Rocky joked about this back in the day or is my mind too addled to remember clearly..?



It was TWA who used it mid 90's

http://www.discogs.com/release/146501


I usually plump for eclectic or freestyle (which is a throwback to my swimming gala days when you could use whatever stroke you wanted)

http://www.discogs.com/image/R-146501-1155630702.jpeg

[ladyboygrimsby]

Tesco!! ha ha that takes me back.. :)

I'm sure Rocky joked about this back in the day or is my mind too addled to remember clearly..?

A distinction does need to be made in my opinion, not all clubbers know the score, and this is a good scene which deserves more followers.

I think it's obvious that a name is needed given how the shops have been trying to describe this stuff.

Electric Soul is good..

On an LNA tip - what about nightmusic ? ;)

It was the name used by Trannies With Attitude wasn't it? I'm sure there's a comp with Tesco in the title.

[*Blackshore]

It was TWA who used it mid 90's

http://www.discogs.com/release/146501


http://www.discogs.com/image/R-146501-1155630702.jpeg

It was the name used by Trannies With Attitude wasn't it? I'm sure there's a comp with Tesco in the title.

Too slow Bill :)

[Gentleman Mixer]

not found of genre names containing soul (soul itself is fine:-D ), as usually its used for very awful sub genres which are policed by ardent humourless traditionalists e.g. soulful house, modern soul, machinesoul ;).

The problem we have is that on this board we are a very broad church taking in 70's rock, country, disco, weird wig out music, house, boogie, hip hop, latin, broken beat, italo, electro, reggae, new age, ambient, modern classical, singer songwriter, r nb, balearic, funk and soul plus loads of other genres. I agree with what Machinesoul said if any of us played out together there would be more differences with perhaps a smattering of records we would all play or have all played at some point e.g. Happy by Max Sedgley or Wesley Music by RSL.

Maybe we could call it "disco deviation" if disco is indeed the root of it all (having first explained that disco is the disco played by Grasso, Siano, Mancuso, Levan, Baldelli et al). Thought of this as Gilles Peterson is basically someone who starts at jazz and then deviates from that point on wards. Mind you we all start from a counch and someone hitting an animal skin drum with a stick...so who knows.

[machinesoul]

not found of genre names containing soul (soul itself is fine:-D ), as usually its used for very awful sub genres which are policed by ardent humourless traditionalists e.g. soulful house, modern soul, machinesoul ;).

The problem we have is that on this board we are a very broad church taking in 70's rock, country, disco, weird wig out music, house, boogie, hip hop, latin, broken beat, italo, electro, reggae, new age, ambient, modern classical, singer songwriter, r nb, balearic, funk and soul plus loads of other genres. I agree with what Machinesoul said if any of us played out together there would be more differences with perhaps a smattering of records we would all play or have all played at some point e.g. Happy by Max Sedgley or Wesley Music by RSL.

Maybe we could call it "disco deviation" if disco is indeed the root of it all (having first explained that disco is the disco played by Grasso, Siano, Mancuso, Levan, Baldelli et al). Thought of this as Gilles Peterson is basically someone who starts at jazz and then deviates from that point on wards. Mind you we all start from a counch and someone hitting an animal skin drum with a stick...so who knows.


You calling me a humourless traditionalist? I'll have you know I'm not a traditionalist :)

[s_busby_uk]

It was TWA who used it mid 90's

http://www.discogs.com/release/146501


I usually plump for eclectic or freestyle (which is a throwback to my swimming gala days when you could use whatever stroke you wanted)

http://www.discogs.com/image/R-146501-1155630702.jpeg

I'd say I was ahead of my time (having not heard of this compilation), but that would be temporally wrong :D

[ivan_smackhead]

lets call it greggs music:cool:

i've never heard any music being played when i'm queueing for a sausage roll/pastie, just the chatter of the ladies behind the counter.

[Darold 80]

it'd be great if there was a name for "it", but also i think if there was then (some) people may begin to play in a certain way to fit within those constraints. what's great at the moment is that there are so many styles of djing & types of music loosely linked.

it's also good that at the moment there is an underground of sorts that hasn't been jumped on by mixmag etc, but obviously, "the scene" will need more coverage & more younger people coming into it if it's to continue.

if people think that "it" may soon be named by the press though, it would be good if the dj's & producers involved could come up with there own name which they were happy with first. then via sell by dave he could use that in his mag & everyone's (doubtful) happy! If the press came up with there own name for it first would people be gutted? suppose it depends on the name they come up with??

On the other hand haven't certain dj's been playing across the board for years & years without anybody trying to stick a name on what they do? or has somebody had a go before & it didn't stick?

sorry, rambling a bit...

[cash_or_exchange]

I suggest we all just call it Jez.

Jez is a nice name and as good as any other.

[machinesoul]

Could sound like jizz in a loud club though :)

[ivan_smackhead]

if we call it "Fuck off Mixmag !" then they won't try to give it a name.;)

[cash_or_exchange]

By the way, I read something a while ago which was very interesting and seems to be what people here are feeling naturally.

Every new decade the first few years (for example : 80-82) will be quite close in music and fashion and culture to the previous decade.

By 83-85 new scenes will be developing as the decade and its new generation of young people start to find their styles and voices and by the sixth or seventh year of the decade this new scene bursts out into a broader acceptance, becomes a 'bona-fide' scene, generates its own names and industries...

Can't remember where I read this but I think it was back before the millenium when people were talking about how it will take a few years before we really are into the 21st Century.

21st Century music...

[cash_or_exchange]

Could sound like jizz in a loud club though :)

What's wrong with listening to a little Jizz music? :) ;)

We have a population problem you know...

[Barfunkel]

Adult rock comes to mind....

Or how about CACA, short for Contemporary Adult Cosmic Action.

[Rotter3*]

If we give it a name it just gives them power over us. Keep it nameless, keep the pigeon-holers off it. The whole thing will be much stronger if it develops by word of mouth rather than some "it's the next-new-next-new thing" in Mixmag/Dazed/Guns 'n Ammo/ Farmers Weekly (delete as appropriate).

[greg wilson]

It seems as if it would almost be easier, from a pigeon-holing perspective, if this music - from the "scene with no name" - could be somehow divorced from it's heritage. But in some ways, it's actually refreshingly mind boggling just how far reaching that heritage is - unashamedly touting straight up disco roots, recasting it with some of disco's latter-day mutant offspring (Italo, Electro...and whatever else), while also finding room for acoustic touches, elements of psychedelia, and the breaks culture that birthed hip-hop and the edit. It's such a grab bag of influences, and all ones that mean different things to different people. Yet there's a common denominator to it too, although you couldn't necessarily put your finger on it.

Definitely a 'grab bag' as you say, but one that connects us all, regardless of whether 2 different DJ's play completely different tunes. I suppose it's about defining what that common denominator you mention is.

The name Electric Soul has been mentioned, but I think this is specific to the Electric Chair and wouldn't translate elsewhere. The main problem being the word Soul, because this already has all sorts of previous attachments. Electric is also problematic because, once again, it already means too many things to too many people.

I'd think we'd be looking for a term that says everything, yet nothing - quite a tricky equation. For example, Balearic was a good term because it could take in a wide range of music, but had no pre-conceptions.

In short, it's not the music that needs naming as such, but the feeling that surrounds it.

[peej]

If we give it a name it just gives them power over us. Keep it nameless, keep the pigeon-holers off it. The whole thing will be much stronger if it develops by word of mouth rather than some "it's the next-new-next-new thing" in Mixmag/Dazed/Guns 'n Ammo/ Farmers Weekly (delete as appropriate).


EXACTLY.

The problem is that capitalism works by putting things into genres (which ultimately makes them become "generic") so that they can be sold to people who are too alzy to think for themselves. Unfortuantely, this is 90% of all people. If you create a "label" (and let's face it, trying to put a single label on music ranging from Fleetwood Mac to Maurice Fulton to whatever is impossible anyway) then you're guaranteed to boost sales of records / attendences of nights that are styled in that way for a short period of time. However, what you also start is the process of genrefication, and before you know it you have every fvcker and his dog claiming to play "cosmic balearic disco" or whatever, which means they play a few tunes by Norwegian producers, but most likely nothing at all made before 2004, and then in a couple of years anything related to the "scene" becomes tainted.

The whole point about "the scene with no name" is that it has no name fro a reason; it's anti-genre; if you make it a genre, it ceases to be, it would be a paradox.

That being said, it is frustrating knowing that there are thousands of potential punters / record buyers out there whom we can't engage with, especially when you know that the stuff you play / produce WORKS.

I'm pretty optimistic about the future, mainly because the rock bands being peddled to "the kids" these days are such unmitigated sh1te that there's bound to be a cultural backlash and people looking for something else.

[Rattlebag]

I actually agree with these sentiments. Once a tag is banged on something it is hard to shift and both the positive and negative associations get attached to it (and the people creating it). Just take a look at the fun the Electroclash scene have had since that unfortunate tag got stamped on them.

EXACTLY.

The problem is that capitalism works by putting things into genres (which ultimately makes them become "generic") so that they can be sold to people who are too alzy to think for themselves. Unfortuantely, this is 90% of all people. If you create a "label" (and let's face it, trying to put a single label on music ranging from Fleetwood Mac to Maurice Fulton to whatever is impossible anyway) then you're guaranteed to boost sales of records / attendences of nights that are styled in that way for a short period of time. However, what you also start is the process of genrefication, and before you know it you have every fvcker and his dog claiming to play "cosmic balearic disco" or whatever, which means they play a few tunes by Norwegian producers, but most likely nothing at all made before 2004, and then in a couple of years anything related to the "scene" becomes tainted.

The whole point about "the scene with no name" is that it has no name fro a reason; it's anti-genre; if you make it a genre, it ceases to be, it would be a paradox.

That being said, it is frustrating knowing that there are thousands of potential punters / record buyers out there whom we can't engage with, especially when you know that the stuff you play / produce WORKS.

I'm pretty optimistic about the future, mainly because the rock bands being peddled to "the kids" these days are such unmitigated sh1te that there's bound to be a cultural backlash and people looking for something else.

[greg wilson]

not to disagree with the lot of you, but doesn't the act of naming it predict it's doom?

I wouldn't say so. I'm sure that there were lots of Soul fans who weren't keen on the term Northern Soul at first, but the naming of it set the wheels in motion for it's growth as a significant underground movement.

House is another obvious example, born of a need to describe the type of tracks played at The Warehouse.

i'm cool with calling it a rather undefined "eclectic". it seems to be everything but mainstream. and sometimes, it's mainstream too.

Eclectic is also problematic because it's not specific to 'our music'. I've heard DJ's who play different types of House together define their style as 'eclectic'.

[peej]

I wouldn't say so. I'm sure that there were lots of Soul fans who weren't keen on the term Northern Soul at first, but the naming of it set the wheels in motion for it's growth as a significant underground movement.

House is another obvious example, born of a need to describe the type of tracks played at The Warehouse.


^ "house" is almost a dirty word though nowadays, esp amongst the "kids", due to the fact that it was massively over-commercialised and hence 90% of the population just think of it as being cheesey crap. However, if you played those people a really good house track without telling them it was "house", chances are that a lot of them would like it.

I know what you're saying though- there's an enormous amount of untapped potential out there, and it's a shame that a lot of really talented people can't make a decent living out of music because of this.

How do we entice people into our musical universe though?

[Topester]

Just keep on doing what you're doing and if it strikes a chord with enough people the pigeonholing will undoubtedly follow... and then you'll all be sorry ;)

[ivan_smackhead]

Balearic was a good term because it could take in a wide range of music, but had no pre-conceptions.

Nu-balearic (TM) ;)


















bloody hell greg, you've opened a can of worms here !

[greg wilson]

Something else that needs to be taken into account is that there are 2 different types of people connected to any evolving scene.

There are the people who want to keep things exclusive - who like the idea of being a part of something that is totally seperated from the possibility of mainstream interference.

On the other hand there are those who want to see the music they love touch as many people as possible - who view this as vital to the overall development of things.

However, regardless of which side of the fence we're on, the problem with not naming it, as has been touched on, is that if we don't do it from within, someone from the outside will. It's just a matter of time.

[terry nutkins]

the thing about this 'scene' is that done right it appeals to a wider cross section of listeners

i think one good example of getting it right is the basement boogaloo night in nottingham

more vocals + varied tempos + more women + great guests + one off parties = SUCCESS

simple really :-D

[ivan_smackhead]

more vocals + varied tempos + more women = :)

nail on the head.

[cash_or_exchange]

Alright!! Enough already!!

It called Jez music now stop your squabbling and read this:

CHICAGO—Music, a mode of creative expression consisting of sound and silence expressed through time, was given a 6.8 out of 10 rating in an review published Monday on Pitchfork Media, a well-known music-criticism website.

According to the review, authored by Pitchfork editor in chief Ryan Schreiber, the popular medium that predates the written word shows promise but nonetheless "leaves the listener wanting more."

"Music's first offering, an eclectic, disparate, but mostly functional compendium of influences from 5000 B.C. to present day, hints that this trend's time may not only have fully arrived, but is already on the wane,"
Schreiber wrote. "If music has any chance of keeping our interest, it's going to have to move beyond the same palatable but predictable notes, meters, melodies, tonalities, atonalities, timbres, and harmonies."

Schreiber's semi-favorable review...summarizes music as a "solid but uninspired effort."

"Coming in at an exhausting 7,000 years long, music is weighed down by a few too many mid- tempo tunes, most notably 'Liebesträume No. 3 in A flat' by Franz Liszt and 'Closing Time' by '90s alt-rock group Semisonic," Schreiber wrote.

"In the end, though music can be brilliant at times, the whole medium comes off as derivative of Pavement."


While Schreiber concedes that music is still "trying to find its aesthetic," he also claims the form has not yet lived up to the lavish praise heaped on it by pop culture journalist Chuck Klosterman and 19th-century French romantic composer and critic Hector Berlioz, among others.

Schreiber concludes his critique by calling on music to develop a more cohesive sound in its future releases.

"We can only hope that [music] will begin to grow with its fans over the next few millennia," Schreiber said. "If it can stick to what it does well, namely the song 'Peg' by Steely Dan, and Tuvan throat singing, then a sophomore effort will indeed be something to get excited about."

The review has split the music community, with many decrying Pitchfork's lukewarm reception of music as a contrarian move designed to propel the publication's tastemaker status.

"It's elitism for the sake of elitism," said Rolling Stone senior editor David Fricke, who refuted Pitchfork's middling rating, describing the entire art form as "transcendent." "I've been listening to music for over 30 years, and it's consistently some of the best stuff out there."

Despite music's defenders, the Pitchfork review has made a deep impression on the thousands of music fans who slavishly follow the website's advice when it comes to enjoying things.

"Music used to be great, but let's be honest, it's a 6.8 now at best," said Los Angeles resident Lowell Radler, 23, who admitted that he just looked at the rating rather than reading the whole review. "I seriously might never listen to music again."

Still, most analysts agreed that the impact of Pitchfork's scathing review of music will be dampened by the 2.4 rating it received from Pitchfork staff writer Dave Maher just moments after the initial critique was published online. Maher termed Schreiber's assessment of music "overwrought, masturbatory posturing intended to make insecure hipsters feel as if they're part of some imagined elite beau monde."

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pitchfork_gives_music_6_8

[ivan_smackhead]

...eh ?
wtf is that all about ?
are we to call our music "6.8" ?

[kikaider01]

when asked about the genre of music I play, I almost always say:

"Good".

As many have stated in this thread, once a name to the genre is pegged, the fashion of said genre will surely follow. once a fashion is desiganted with a musical genre, the scene is already dead. Once you name it, I see balericlash, and balericlash clothing sold at Hot Topic not to far behind...

Think of this unspeakable genre as the Fight Club/illuminati/oink.com/ of music scenes. everyone agrees to never name it, or categorize it....but practicioners of the genre continue to evolve and change it so that it can never be pegged down.

[greg wilson]

If we give it a name it just gives them power over us. Keep it nameless, keep the pigeon-holers off it. The whole thing will be much stronger if it develops by word of mouth rather than some "it's the next-new-next-new thing" in Mixmag/Dazed/Guns 'n Ammo/ Farmers Weekly (delete as appropriate).

As I said, if the people with a love for it don't name it, someone else eventually will. If you're set against naming it in the first place, surely it being kept 'in-house', so to speak, is the lesser of 2 evils.

I agree with what you say about word of mouth development, it's just that I feel that events just might overtake us if we wait too long for something to happen, as opposed to being pro-active.

[poor_impulse_control]

Since the late 90's i've been buying and recording idjut boys, black cock and disco re-edit stuff, going on a journey to find out where all the samples that the house records i'd bought in the early nineties came from. Through DJH i have learnt about the Cosmic/Afro scenes and the classic balearic and disco records. All of those style tracks have gone into a folder on my pc called dub house disco. Although i have a named folder on my pc, I wouldn't like to put a label on the music.

All I know is that as along as i can go and dance the night away in the Rizla Arena (or similar) to djs such as Greg W, Maurice F, Jim Stanton, Stu Patterson, Todd Terje, Prins Thomas, The Idjuts etc. then it doesn't need a name, just tell me the time and the place and i'll show up!

[greg wilson]

EXACTLY.

The problem is that capitalism works by putting things into genres (which ultimately makes them become "generic") so that they can be sold to people who are too alzy to think for themselves. Unfortuantely, this is 90% of all people. If you create a "label" (and let's face it, trying to put a single label on music ranging from Fleetwood Mac to Maurice Fulton to whatever is impossible anyway) then you're guaranteed to boost sales of records / attendences of nights that are styled in that way for a short period of time. However, what you also start is the process of genrefication, and before you know it you have every fvcker and his dog claiming to play "cosmic balearic disco" or whatever, which means they play a few tunes by Norwegian producers, but most likely nothing at all made before 2004, and then in a couple of years anything related to the "scene" becomes tainted.

The whole point about "the scene with no name" is that it has no name fro a reason; it's anti-genre; if you make it a genre, it ceases to be, it would be a paradox.

That being said, it is frustrating knowing that there are thousands of potential punters / record buyers out there whom we can't engage with, especially when you know that the stuff you play / produce WORKS.

I'm pretty optimistic about the future, mainly because the rock bands being peddled to "the kids" these days are such unmitigated sh1te that there's bound to be a cultural backlash and people looking for something else.

Good points, but I think it'll be defined regardless of whether or not we do it. As I said, I don't think it's a genre name were looking for, but something that encompasses the spirit of what we're doing (all from our different angles).

[Cafe del Lar]

just look at the difficulty the 'dance' music press have lumping anything that's not trad-house music.....

leftfield
experimental
etc
etc

last week i jokingly asked the lad in probe when are getting a 'cosmic disco' section and he just said 'there'd be nothing to put in it' - well Piccadilly manage it I replied....this is a so-called 'specialist' shop that has a so-called 'death disco' section. eh? It's even worse if you try and get a 'balearic' night off the ground - club owners (some of whom were actually involved in the original scene) just don't understand what music you're trying to play - maybe this is peculiar to Liverpool though.

Most venue owners/programmers/promotions people want something they can stick on a flyer that'll sum up a sound that most 19 year old students can understand -this is their core audience and maybe like northern soul, This Thing Of Ours can survive with a small network of disciples, djs, venues, labels - across different continents but no-one's gonna get rich (which is a good thing).

[machinesoul]

just look at the difficulty the 'dance' music press have lumping anything that's not trad-house music.....

leftfield
experimental
etc
etc

last week i jokingly asked the lad in probe when are getting a 'cosmic disco' section and he just said 'there'd be nothing to put in it' - well Piccadilly manage it I replied....this is a so-called 'specialist' shop that has a so-called 'death disco' section. eh? It's even worse if you try and get a 'balearic' night off the ground - club owners (some of whom were actually involved in the original scene) just don't understand what music you're trying to play - maybe this is peculiar to Liverpool though.

Most venue owners/programmers/promotions people want something they can stick on a flyer that'll sum up a sound that most 19 year old students can understand -this is their core audience and maybe like northern soul, This Thing Of Ours can survive with a small network of disciples, djs, venues, labels - across different continents but no-one's gonna get rich (which is a good thing).


It's not ;)

[greg wilson]

when asked about the genre of music I play, I almost always say:

"Good".

But don't you think that every DJ out there, regardless of genre, believes they're playing 'good' music?

It hardly helps someone who's had a great night dancing to the stuff you play when it comes to describing this music to somebody else, who wasn't there to hear it first hand.

[the mighty asok]

last week i jokingly asked the lad in probe when are getting a 'cosmic disco' section and he just said 'there'd be nothing to put in it' - well Piccadilly manage it I replied....this is a so-called 'specialist' shop that has a so-called 'death disco' section. eh? It's even worse if you try and get a 'balearic' night off the ground - club owners (some of whom were actually involved in the original scene) just don't understand what music you're trying to play - maybe this is peculiar to Liverpool though.

Im sure I cant be the only person who finds probe records a bit dissapointing. There are about 20 records in it for starters. I guess we all know by now that Liverpool is not great when it comes to buying records.

[cash_or_exchange]

This Thing Of Ours


Lar, I think you've nailed it. Cosa Nostra....This Thing Of Ours

T. T. O. O.
2/2
Tu-Tu
Too-Too
Desmond Music
Casa Cosa Nostra (?This House Thing Of Ours??)

:-D

Any use?

[Critical Chris]

Defining something always appears to be the privilege of the media or some other culture vulture types Hip Hop originators still to this day discuss/dismiss the validity of the term Hip Hop most admit the culture mid to late 70's was never given a tag by those involved , this seems to be a universal thing for most "scenes" over the decades.

I'm sure the Detroit and Chicago guys can trace the terms Techno and House to one british journalist who wrote for the nme(don't quote me on that this is just from memory?) in the late 80's , from what i can tell the Detroit musicians and producers were never very happy with the term Techno as they were only making progressive dance music like there Chicago peers.

I was just admiring the other day in a 1974 copy of Black Music - they have an ad
of forthcoming events from the INNER CITY SOUL CLUB (Wolverhampton, Malvern, Shrewsbury, Preston, "Soul
Train to Swindon All-nighter" and Blackpool Mecca) and DJs include Soul Sam,
Ian Levine and Colin Curtis. Membership of the ISC was 50p! The thank you
to members reads: "In UNITY we have STRENGTH - in NUMBERS we have SUCCESS -
SPREAD the WORD and PROMOTE the FUTURE of SOUL" All a bit Nuremberg rally but a scene none the less which once given a name "Northern Soul" grew to become highly influential and I would say it even had a very positive effect on the contemporary music in the UK . Something which i must say i'm not picking up from this uninspired 80's pastiche we get from the supposed contemporary bands related scene a bit of cosmic , disco boogie , influence could work a treat . Anything musical rather than just a bunch of posturing fashion models with guitars!!

On the flip side though i read a great quote on the subject of scenes something along the lines of " Most scenes are defined more by what music people don't like than do" kind of the nail in the coffin when that happens.

[greg wilson]

All I know is that as along as i can go and dance the night away in the Rizla Arena (or similar) to djs such as Greg W, Maurice F, Jim Stanton, Stu Patterson, Todd Terje, Prins Thomas, The Idjuts etc. then it doesn't need a name, just tell me the time and the place and i'll show up!

I hear what you're saying, but remember that many people who discovered that Rizla area over Bestival weekend won't know where to go to catch a similar vibe once they head home, They'll be talking to their friends, saying what a brilliant time they had, but that's probably as far as it'll go until next year when they turn up at Bestival, or a similar festival again and stumble upon a similar type of area. The sad thing is that there are, no doubt, nights in their home city (or nearest city) that they'd love, but they haven't got a clue where they are, or that they're connected to the vibe they experienced at Bestival.

Worst of all, it's mainly the girls who we're talking about here. On this board we've got our ears to the ground with regards to what's happening, but the overwhelming majority of people on DJ History (and most other related forums) are blokes. We seriously need to find a way to balance this out - it's absolutely vital.

[pipecock]

Something else that needs to be taken into account is that there are 2 different types of people connected to any evolving scene.

There are the people who want to keep things exclusive - who like the idea of being a part of something that is totally seperated from the possibility of mainstream interference.

On the other hand there are those who want to see the music they love touch as many people as possible - who view this as vital to the overall development of things.

However, regardless of which side of the fence we're on, the problem with not naming it, as has been touched on, is that if we don't do it from within, someone from the outside will. It's just a matter of time.

hmm, im just not sure about that. i mean, deejays like harvey, theo parrish, maurice fulton, metro area, etc have been doing this kind of thing for a long time to pretty big audiences worldwide without naming what they do or trying to fit it into an easy description. one thing i find interesting is that certain deejays who play in this style are more accepted in certain genres than others. like maurice fulton is more accepted in techno circles than say harvey is. and metro area is more accepted in the electro-italo/cbs kinda scene than the idjuts. and now we see terje and theo parrish doing deep space in NYC, infiltrating the stodgy deep house page crew. in a way, this works to everyone's advantage. its like covert missions being run simultaneously in all other dance genres to try and bring a sense of history and eclecticism to everyone on their own terms.

In short, it's not the music that needs naming as such, but the feeling that surrounds it.

this is something that is of great interest to me. for me, hiphop and house music were feelings and attitudes way more than they were a specific sound. both genres existed before there were records named after the genre. naming that feeling, especially when its something that is happening on a small basis but also on a global scale (like this one seems to be) as opposed to just a little local scene like house and hiphop were.

[fabiofal]

Worst of all, it's mainly the girls who we're talking about here. On this board we've got our ears to the ground with regards to what's happening, but the overwhelming majority of people on DJ History (and most other related forums) are blokes. We seriously need to find a way to balance this out - it's absolutely vital.

WORD!!! :cool:

[kikaider01]

But don't you think that every DJ out there, regardless of genre, believes they're playing 'good' music?

It hardly helps someone who's had a great night dancing to the stuff you play when it comes to describing this music to somebody else, who wasn't there to hear it first hand.

I guess it goes back to that whole northern soul scene. I can imagine people saying, "hey, I went to see that greg wilson play last night. he played good music."

from this, what would an outsider think?

1. "good": my friend's definition of good. (which could be good or bad)
2. "good": I dont understand, maybe I should ask more questions about it...

at least here a discussion is made about the music, and maybe it will get more folks interested.

when a name is affixed, it is usually the what the opinions of the media says the music is:
If I say I play disco, the first thing people do is start singing "I will survive"
If I say i play techno, people assume its that damned vampire nation junk...
If i say I play electro, it is assumed I play electroclash...(don't get me started on this..)
If i say I play house, it is assumed that a 4/4 beat will be played at 120 bpm for 2-3 hours straight. (actually not, there are a few house anthems people expect here in good ol' pittsburgh...and I simply refuse to play 'em)

but when I say I play "good music", it sparks conversation. let the people decide what's good through experience and conversation about such. providing a definition makes these much needed conversations disappear.

in the end, I'd say that the "genre" is one of those things that is undescribable. like explaining the color purple to a blind person.

[586]

'We seriously need to find a way to balance this out - it's absolutely vital.'

the way you're holding the years back, i think we just need to put your name on flyers and the women will come...

[Cafe del Lar]

[QUOTE=Critical Chris;266851]DJs include Soul Sam,
Ian Levine and Colin Curtis. Membership of the ISC was 50p! The thank you
to members reads: "In UNITY we have STRENGTH - in NUMBERS we have SUCCESS -
QUOTE]

yeah but ian levine is perhaps the most hated man in northern soul with kev roberts comign up on the inside...once a scene becomes about money, it always becomes corrupted.....levine was a great propagandist (he should've ended that manifesto with 'in success I have wealth') and though many won't admit it, a great DJ who took the scene forward at the mecca (not that i was there like) although colin curtis was always the unsung hero of that era -msot of the 'new' stuff touted on here is 'progressive' although there's also a lot of nostalgia and classicism too - above all it's about quality which is ofcourse subjective and keeping things moving forward instead of relying on the mainstream to dictate the agenda. here endeth the platitude.

[speculator]

not trying to be a jerk or anything.. but..i have really noticed something..

why is it always the british who have to name everything? is it a cultural thing? is it not valid if you can't put a label on it?

just let it happen.. it is all disco to me..

[Red Rack'em]

I would like to see 'our' music getting to a wider audience as it may help the unsung heros get a bit more dj work and would make it more economically viable to record our types of underground music

But would more exposure raise the production values? I am not sure - the people that do well in a larger scale sense in djing often seem to play a slightly watered down version of the hard core roots of their scene imo.

They play more inclusive music. I think this trend would develop as the opportunities increased. I would rather the music remained more cutting edge and didn't try to pander to a 'new' audience.

Also in a production context I have noticed that a lot of artists seem to lose their touch when they become better known and they have expectation set upon them rather than having a point to prove...

If our scene had a name and blew up - would it help the quality? NO

Surely the increase in awareness will improve peoples fiscal situations rather than the music quality - a la the evolution of disco/hiphop/minimal/dubstep etc.

When scenes start blowing up it often doesn't equal quality output from clubs,djs or producers....

It IS available to us - just not to those who don't seek it out. Without being elitist - will they love it if it's handed to them on a plate?

This may seem contradictory to my previous post about wanting a wider audience - but on reflection - I think I would be put off the music if it became too populist. I know this seems daft - but we're talking about psychology here... It's not always about what something sounds like - it's got a whole social identity wrapped up in it..

[Cafe del Lar]

it is all disco to me..


is that billy joel song?

[Critical Chris]

QUOTE] and though many won't admit it, a great DJ who took the scene forward at the mecca (not that i was there like) [/QUOTE]

Exactly from what i've read and listened to it seems Levine and Cohorts took the music forward playing new imports and moving the scene away from the detroit sounds a thing the scene today is still divided on.
I think Greg has written things along a similer line about introducing the 80's electro funk to the Jazz funk scene who weren't open to it which i find ironic as Jazz funk was surely a progression on the Soul scene.

I like what somone was saying about the introducing eclectisism and roots back into dance music , i think for a lot of younger listeners it's good to hear the inluences on there music house ,techno etc and like i've witnessed at Al's MDD and seeing Greg playout theres till a wealth of great tunes that move the dancefloor.

[speculator]

is that billy joel song?

i hope so.

[Rotter3*]

I understand Greg's sentiment that if we don't name it then something will be fosited upon us by the media but how can we pull together so many disparate threads conveniently into one handy catchphrase?

Like Pipecock pointed out, we all come together from all ends of the musical spectrum. Some of us older ones have seen our way through several scenes. What brings us together is desire to present great music "properly" (as Bill would say) and a rejection of the blinkered musical "genre fascism" that has become prevalent amonst DJ's, Promotors and Journalists over the last decade or so. As an earlier poster pointed out, it's a feeling more than anything else. How do we neatly tie that up?

[kikaider01]

I understand Greg's sentiment that if we don't name it then something will be fosited upon us by the media but how can we pull together so many disparate threads conveniently into one handy catchphrase?

Like Pipecock pointed out, we all come together from all ends of the musical spectrum. Some of us older ones have seen our way through several scenes. What brings us together is desire to present great music "properly" (as Bill would say) and a rejection of the blinkered musical "genre fascism" that has become prevalent amonst DJ's, Promotors and Journalists over the last decade or so. As an earlier poster pointed out, it's a feeling more than anything else. How do we neatly tie that up?


"good".

[Critical Chris]

"Good Feeling"
http://members.tripod.com/Tiny_Dancer/sslove.jpg

[586]

the proper stuff that you accumulate through aching backs, creaking knees and buying records instead of food or fancy haircuts...

[pipecock]

QUOTE]I like what somone was saying about the introducing eclectisism and roots back into dance music , i think for a lot of younger listeners it's good to hear the inluences on there music house ,techno etc and like i've witnessed at Al's MDD and seeing Greg playout theres till a wealth of great tunes that move the dancefloor.

aside from the young listeners, its just good for the perception of dance music by all people for it to have a history and for it to be more than just a banging club beat that many people associate with it. if we want people to care about this stuff in 20 years, there has to be a reason. it sure isnt going to be people digging 1998 prog house or 2007 mnml out of the crates of the local record shop that is gonna do it. its inspiring to see Wax Poetics trying to do this for the hiphop scene, creating a sense of how jazz soul and funk ARE hiphop music. and in the same way, this scene does the same thing for house and techno and electro, etc. today's marketing has led everything to be disposable: music, culture, whatever. only with a defined history can we help buck that trend and see it move into the future in a positive manner.

[kikaider01]

aside from the young listeners, its just good for the perception of dance music by all people for it to have a history and for it to be more than just a banging club beat that many people associate with it. if we want people to care about this stuff in 20 years, there has to be a reason. it sure isnt going to be people digging 1998 prog house or 2007 mnml out of the crates of the local record shop that is gonna do it. its inspiring to see Wax Poetics trying to do this for the hiphop scene, creating a sense of how jazz soul and funk ARE hiphop music. and in the same way, this scene does the same thing for house and techno and electro, etc. today's marketing has led everything to be disposable: music, culture, whatever. only with a defined history can we help buck that trend and see it move into the future in a positive manner.

and that's why we have the internet! and 50 years from now, the human collective hypermind. the information on the internet is forever, and its incredibly detailed. I know people who look stuff up on discogs, gemm and djhistory while out at the club! somehow, culture and perceptions of the past are different now.

[Sell By Dave]

This is a real hornets nest, isn't it?

I have come to the conclusion after a number of years that, like Greg, the lack of easy tagging for nights that play anything and everything is something that makes life difficult for random punters and those that aren't heavily into the sort of open-minded eclecticism many on this board champion. This is also true of the lack of "mainstream" recognition for many of the best DJs whose style reflects this - in many places (in the UK and beyond), many of the DJs are simply not well known enough to be a big pull outside of the hardcore who frequent boards like this.

Generally speaking, the regular parties that have been most successful have been ones in major UK cities. They've also benefited from building up a crowd over a long period of time, this creating their own mini "scene" in their own city/town. Therefore they can book more underground names/scene heroes, because the crowd they have built up - old and young, black and white, straight and gay, girls and boys - is committed to the party and feel part of something special.

When we launched best before: in Bristol four years ago, it was born out of a desire to have a cool little below-stairs party where we could play great music - regardless of genre/style - book DJs we admired and we knew would rock it, and ensure that a lot of people had great fun dancing to the sort of music that just wasn't being played in the city. Bristol has a tradition of eclectic nights - well, there was the Dug Out, which was legendary - though that seemed to die out in the late 80s/early 90s. When we decided to launch the night - at a venue that had never before held club nights and was very much a "well kept secret" - Bristol clubbers had a choice between a couple of decent but under-populated house nights, loads of breaks, drum & bass and hip-hop events, and some huge Slinky style bashes at the Academy. We believed that people would be into a party where it was just about good music and good times.

But how do you sell such a night? Because we thought "it's about the party" we shied away from saying "we play x, Y and X" and instead sold it on the eclectic party thing - "eclectic treats for basement freaks" and "Bristol basement beats" were our original tag lines. We also used "Bristol's Balearic Basement" for Tricky Disco, which confused 'em even more. In a bid to explain it all, we even did our own online "manifesto" to explain it, which can still be seen here: http://www.bestbefore.org/manifesto.html

Not knowing how to sell such a night (though we tried hard) was probably our undoing. Now we just tell people it's a party and that you're guaranteed a good time. These days our events are smaller and tend to just be about a load of people who love good music dancing in pubs or small clubs to good DJs, whether local, national or international. I've given up trying to convert people - if we do that along the way, it'll be a good bonus. The good news is quite a few of our regulars are in their 20s… in fact, the vast majority are. There's not millions of them, but it's growing… there are people out there, you just have to find them if they don't find you. The internet is very good for this - myspace, facebook, forums etc.

[peej]

I would like to see 'our' music getting to a wider audience as it may help the unsung heros get a bit more dj work and would make it more economically viable to record our types of underground music

But would more exposure raise the production values? I am not sure - the people that do well in a larger scale sense in djing often seem to play a slightly watered down version of the hard core roots of their scene imo.

They play more inclusive music. I think this trend would develop as the opportunities increased. I would rather the music remained more cutting edge and didn't try to pander to a 'new' audience.

Also in a production context I have noticed that a lot of artists seem to lose their touch when they become better known and they have expectation set upon them rather than having a point to prove...

If our scene had a name and blew up - would it help the quality? NO

Surely the increase in awareness will improve peoples fiscal situations rather than the music quality - a la the evolution of disco/hiphop/minimal/dubstep etc.

When scenes start blowing up it often doesn't equal quality output from clubs,djs or producers....

It IS available to us - just not to those who don't seek it out. Without being elitist - will they love it if it's handed to them on a plate?

This may seem contradictory to my previous post about wanting a wider audience - but on reflection - I think I would be put off the music if it became too populist. I know this seems daft - but we're talking about psychology here... It's not always about what something sounds like - it's got a whole social identity wrapped up in it..

I don't think "our" music could ever be too populist by its very nature, though that doesn't preclude playing "inclusive" music- in fact, I think that the playing of certain really well-known artists is a lot of what "cosa nostra" is about. There are various levels of inclusivitiy, after all.

If producers could make a decent living from music, then they'd make more of it, which equates to a quality improvement in my book, for the scene as a whole.

[the mighty asok]

This is a real hornets nest, isn't it?

I have come to the conclusion after a number of years that, like Greg, the lack of easy tagging for nights that play anything and everything is something that makes life difficult for random punters and those that aren't heavily into the sort of open-minded eclecticism many on this board champion. This is also true of the lack of "mainstream" recognition for many of the best DJs whose style reflects this - in many places (in the UK and beyond), many of the DJs are simply not well known enough to be a big pull outside of the hardcore who frequent boards like this.

Generally speaking, the regular parties that have been most successful have been ones in major UK cities. They've also benefited from building up a crowd over a long period of time, this creating their own mini "scene" in their own city/town. Therefore they can book more underground names/scene heroes, because the crowd they have built up - old and young, black and white, straight and gay, girls and boys - is committed to the party and feel part of something special.

When we launched best before: in Bristol four years ago, it was born out of a desire to have a cool little below-stairs party where we could play great music - regardless of genre/style - book DJs we admired and we knew would rock it, and ensure that a lot of people had great fun dancing to the sort of music that just wasn't being played in the city. Bristol has a tradition of eclectic nights - well, there was the Dug Out, which was legendary - though that seemed to die out in the late 80s/early 90s. When we decided to launch the night - at a venue that had never before held club nights and was very much a "well kept secret" - Bristol clubbers had a choice between a couple of decent but under-populated house nights, loads of breaks, drum & bass and hip-hop events, and some huge Slinky style bashes at the Academy. We believed that people would be into a party where it was just about good music and good times.

But how do you sell such a night? Because we thought "it's about the party" we shied away from saying "we play x, Y and X" and instead sold it on the eclectic party thing - "eclectic treats for basement freaks" and "Bristol basement beats" were our original tag lines. We also used "Bristol's Balearic Basement" for Tricky Disco, which confused 'em even more. In a bid to explain it all, we even did our own online "manifesto" to explain it, which can still be seen here: http://www.bestbefore.org/manifesto.html

Not knowing how to sell such a night (though we tried hard) was probably our undoing. Now we just tell people it's a party and that you're guaranteed a good time. These days our events are smaller and tend to just be about a load of people who love good music dancing in pubs or small clubs to good DJs, whether local, national or international. I've given up trying to convert people - if we do that along the way, it'll be a good bonus. The good news is quite a few of our regulars are in their 20s… in fact, the vast majority are. There's not millions of them, but it's growing… there are people out there, you just have to find them if they don't find you. The internet is very good for this - myspace, facebook, forums etc.

What a good post.
I think if (when) I was ever going to do something, its this kind of advice I would follow. There are ways to promote clubs these days that arent all about saying "we guarantee that this kind of music will be played". There are so many different styles and sounds these days anyway, how can, say, a US House night (meh) guarantee thats its only playing "US House". Its stupid to think that is the case.

I really like the thought of promoting a party for party people, rather than a house/techno/techhouse night, and so on.

[chris keyz]

there are lots of good points made already... in a lot of ways I have a more extreme experience of this being way out in the bottom end of the planet where peope have no real idea of what Cosmic is, that Disco continues to advance and evolve, that Balearic is so diverse, or even worse that tempo's can or should vary etc. and as such have no real interest in it or know what kind of alternative it is...

I don't have an answer but i think a. that the types of music involved does mean it wont ever go mainstream, or is atleast unlikely. b. that the name should describe in some way the experience the music offers, i realise this is subjective but i cant help thinking that so many of the nu sounds are infact linked by a kind of psychadelia or cosmic feeling (note - with a little c) and c. perhaps it could also suggest a kind of growth, range and advancement...

just thinking out aloud...

[peej]

I really like the thought of promoting a party for party people, rather than a house/techno/techhouse night, and so on.

That's generally what most people on here do already, though.

I use words like "disco", "boogie", "soul", "psychedelic" etc. to describe our night, but the main point is that it should be a party and that, were it possible, it would be taking place in outer space (like on the cover of one of my motown disco compilations).

I think this doesn't take into account the damage done by years of micro-niche division on the part of the media though. It's hard to get people to engage with music on an intuitive level; they've been conditioned to think in terms of genres and what these represent, and that's how many people interpret music. It's a fascism of the mind. Maaan.

[the mighty asok]

Years of being into the drum and bass scene, it became fractured with the following: Techstep, neurostep, liquid, jump-up, clownstep, intelligent, Ragga....well - just go and look at the categories on betport (for any so called Genre) and you will see what I mean.

It doesnt help at all. I am, however, a big fan of the term "dance music", because thats what the ultimate aim of it is (most of the time, I suppose).

[the mighty asok]

[QUOTE=peej;266910]That's generally what most people on here do already, though.[QUOTE]

Im picking that up now - you might see from my post count, im new around these parts :)

[Sell By Dave]

there are lots of good points made already... in a lot of ways I have a more extreme experience of this being way out in the bottom end of the planet where peope have no real idea of what Cosmic is, that Disco continues to advance and evolve, that Balearic is so diverse, or even worse that tempo's can or should vary etc. and as such have no real interest in it or know what kind of alternative it is...

I don't have an answer but i think a. that the types of music involved does mean it wont ever go mainstream, or is atleast unlikely. b. that the name should describe in some way the experience the music offers, i realise this is subjective but i cant help thinking that so many of the nu sounds are infact linked by a kind of psychadelia or cosmic feeling (note - with a little c) and c. perhaps it could also suggest a kind of growth, range and advancement...

just thinking out aloud...

To a lot of people in the UK, disco means silly afro wigs, crap student nights and DJs getting on the mic talking rubbish in that weird mid-atlantic accent all commercial club DJs have. Similarly, 'Balearic' doesn't mean anything to 99.9% of people… or worse they think it means you play "Ibiza terrace sty;le trance". Er, no.

Most people have no idea about cosmic disco either, though they'll usually like the name. "Sounds spaced-out!" etc

[chris keyz]

To a lot of people in the UK, disco means silly afro wigs, crap student nights and DJs getting on the mic talking rubbish in that weird mid-atlantic accent all commercial club DJs have. Similarly, 'Balearic' doesn't mean anything to 99.9% of people… or worse they think it means you play "Ibiza terrace sty;le trance". Er, no.

Most people have no idea about cosmic disco either, though they'll usually like the name. "Sounds spaced-out!" etc

that's pretty interesting - then its the same here!!!

[Jolyon]

"underground disco"

[Martin Red]

One of the conclusions I've made on my travels is the fact that because there isn't a name for this whole Disco, Boogie, Cosmic, Space, Balearic, Electro-Funk, Re-Edits type vibe, a lot of younger people, who really like it, having stumbled upon a one-off night, go away without being able to explain what they've just been listening to, and not knowing where else they can hear this music.



imho, I think it would come and gone by now, like trance, and soon to be gone funki house.

We didn't have computers at school, they had a BBC in my 4th or 5th year and that was it. Unlike the kids today, who leave school fully able to find information and use the internet as a jukebox, if they are still having problems, perhaps that's musical natural selection.

[the mighty asok]

"musical natural selection"

Like when gatecrasher burned down?

[Jolyon]

isn't it quite nice in a way that people have to make an effort about the music? there are plenty of good parties happening attracting music lovers without the backing of the dance music press etc.

personally i'm glad there is no marketing name because it would lead to the inevitable hype, crap cd comps, crash and burn.

in the internet age it's something of a miracle that things on the whole are still quite cosy and underground.

who wants to hear disco at gatecrasher?

[peej]

"musical natural selection"

Like when gatecrasher burned down?

unfortunately it still survives... in Nottingham now!

[poor_impulse_control]

I hear what you're saying, but remember that many people who discovered that Rizla area over Bestival weekend won't know where to go to catch a similar vibe once they head home, They'll be talking to their friends, saying what a brilliant time they had, but that's probably as far as it'll go until next year when they turn up at Bestival, or a similar festival again and stumble upon a similar type of area. The sad thing is that there are, no doubt, nights in their home city (or nearest city) that they'd love, but they haven't got a clue where they are, or that they're connected to the vibe they experienced at Bestival.

Worst of all, it's mainly the girls who we're talking about here. On this board we've got our ears to the ground with regards to what's happening, but the overwhelming majority of people on DJ History (and most other related forums) are blokes. We seriously need to find a way to balance this out - it's absolutely vital.

I guess one way to remedy that would be to make sure the discovering people have every opportunity to find out what they are listening to; billboards with the dj's name, posters, flyers with info (you probably couldn't flyer or advertise too much at bestival), maybe an easier way to find out what the tracks playing are - an led marquee or something. Part of what got me into house etc. was the inaccesibilty, the fact that you have to do a little research work to get the tunes you'd heard a dj play, but your average punter wants to be able to put the track name into thier phone and download it from itunes the next day. The Girls I was with at bestival all loved the A.Beedle Kate Bush edit, but they wouldn't have a clue how to get the music they'd heard.

[greg wilson]

not trying to be a jerk or anything.. but..i have really noticed something..

why is it always the british who have to name everything? is it a cultural thing? is it not valid if you can't put a label on it?

just let it happen.. it is all disco to me..

Yeah, I suppose it is something of a British thing, but that's the way it's been for as long as I can remember here, and we do have a dance culture that goes back a long long way, into the 60's. Different strokes for different folks.

As someone else mentioned, the moment you say Disco, most people think of 'I Will Survive' or the Bee Gees. The term is far too commercialized to make any real sense with regards to what we're doing.

[the mighty asok]

isn't it quite nice in a way that people have to make an effort about the music?

Do you know what - I absolutely love making the effort for music. Its not like its not rewarding enough is it? However, I see the point in not alienating this to people who are not as passionate about things as perhaps some of us are. I find if I have an interest in anythng I will dip further into it and find out more about it, some people are not like that though. Is it right to say "thats there problem" instead of helping them out a little?

[Jolyon]

people don't need to be obsessed with what a track is. thousands of people used to go to house clubs every week and never gave a shit what any of the records were called. i don't see the difference with disco nights tbh.

[Martin Red]

people don't need to be obsessed with what a track is. thousands of people used to go to house clubs every week and never gave a shit what any of the records were called. i don't see the difference with disco nights tbh.

True. I think the names have ripped the arse out of it over the more recent years.


Divided we fall.

That's all names do really divide us up into nice neat little tick boxes, then some boardroom cunt tries to sell us more shite we really don't need.

[pipecock]

people don't need to be obsessed with what a track is. thousands of people used to go to house clubs every week and never gave a shit what any of the records were called. i don't see the difference with disco nights tbh.

when do you mean? the original house music clubs (paradise garage, warehouse, etc) had record stores that sold the tunes played in those clubs to the people who came in looking for them. if you mean after house became more popular, there were songs on the charts for people to be able to easily identify and go out and purchase. i dont think any scene where people just dont care about the songs being played is going to be interesting or long lasting. thats the definition of trendy club music and thats why those dont last long!

[Topester]

Scandolaric

[Phil Potter]

i think the fears that money & greed will tear the heart out of what we're doing is a valid fear but it seems a bit reactionary to say that attaching a name is opening the door for that to happen.

after reading all these considered points of view, i can see what Gregg is saying. i'm seeing a point in having some sort of anchor in the musical sea.

i struggled with this idea a couple years back trying to think of a name for my music projects. DJ(fill in the blank) has never been an option i liked. after thinking about what i wanted to do musically, i came up with F.A.C. which stands for Felicitous Audio Collage. it basically means i want to use sound from many different sources pastiched together in a "this fits the moment perfectly" way. i want the collage of sound to fit the moment/space/crowd that it's created for/in.

[knorben knussen]

I think "dance music" is the only thing that works for me. It's broad enough to cover everything that I play without putting any kind of restrictions. And realistically that's what this music is for if it is being played out.

Unfortunately this title was already kind of taken by clubbier house for most people.

Either way, I think if a name is given to this whole thing I don't think it will come from within. It's going to come from a journalists/publications. Even if one is decided upon on this board and other related sites, I think all that does is set everybody up to hate the one that is finally used.

[Topester]

I think you're all over thinking it. You can't force these things... if you do you end up with bollocks non-genres like 'romo' or the 'new wave of new wave' which just don't connect with people.

Leave the pigeonholing to other people and concentrate on making the people dance to nice music.

[Jolyon]

I think you're all over thinking it. You can't force these things... if you do you end up with bollocks non-genres like 'romo' or the 'new wave of new wave' which just don't connect with people.

Leave the pigeonholing to other people and concentrate on making the people dance to nice music.

hurrah! spot on.

[greg wilson]

Generally speaking, the regular parties that have been most successful have been ones in major UK cities. They've also benefited from building up a crowd over a long period of time, this creating their own mini "scene" in their own city/town. Therefore they can book more underground names/scene heroes, because the crowd they have built up - old and young, black and white, straight and gay, girls and boys - is committed to the party and feel part of something special.

What I think is lacking is the connections between these 'mini scenes'. If there's one monthly night in Bristol, what's to stop some of the same people travelling to Birmingham, or even London, on another night (and vice-versa) for a similar party. At the moment this isn't really happening - the whole thing is pretty fragmented.

If you go back to Northern Soul, Jazz-Funk, Electro-Funk, early House etc, part of the fun was to travel and hook-up with people from different areas. It was still very much an underground thing, but there was more of a connectedness and unity.

The more we're able to bring people from different areas together, the more they'll feel a part of a bigger picture and support each others nights. This isn't about commercializing things, but strengthening what we already have, whilst reaching out to people who are currently detached from what we're doing, despite being into the music we play.

[peej]

I think you're all over thinking it. You can't force these things... if you do you end up with bollocks non-genres like 'romo' or the 'new wave of new wave' which just don't connect with people.

Leave the pigeonholing to other people and concentrate on making the people dance to nice music.


Yes.

I think that slowly people are coming round to the idea that they don't HAVE to think of music in terms of genres, but more about how it makes them feel at a particular moment in a particular place etc... I hope that this will initiate more of a desire to explore beyond the safely-defined notions of genre (e.g. people who just listen to one kind of music as it defines their notion of self-identity) and who knows, maybe a return to very broad categories once more.

[fastasleepclub]

hmm, im just not sure about that. i mean, deejays like harvey, theo parrish, maurice fulton, metro area, etc have been doing this kind of thing for a long time to pretty big audiences worldwide without naming what they do or trying to fit it into an easy description.

And they're definitely all a part of the heritage of where this music is today, and how far it is has come. You could argue that some of them are less relevant in the cold light of a September 2007 day....but they're all in the blender, with a lot of the other references that people have touched on.

one thing i find interesting is that certain deejays who play in this style are more accepted in certain genres than others. like maurice fulton is more accepted in techno circles than say harvey is. and metro area is more accepted in the electro-italo/cbs kinda scene than the idjuts. and now we see terje and theo parrish doing deep space in NYC, infiltrating the stodgy deep house page crew. in a way, this works to everyone's advantage. its like covert missions being run simultaneously in all other dance genres to try and bring a sense of history and eclecticism to everyone on their own terms.


In business, there's a name for this sort of phemonema - a "disruptor". Something new that comes along, that is somewhat similar to a few other pre-existing things, and perhaps bridges a few of them (often in ways that didn't previously exist) - but which forces a thorough re-examination of those precursors also. Places them in a new, revised context.

And it's far better to think of it in this context, as opposed to something else....I mean, for example, in food terms, something that's thrown together from bits and pieces of other stuff is just a rissole, a stew....or just leftovers!

(Imagine if you will, a deadpan Ted Chippington-like accent.....)

Punter: "What's that your playing, Chief?"
Selector: "Rissoles...."
Punter: "No need to be like that, Man. I only asked"

Boom,Tsssssss :-D

[peej]

What I think is lacking is the connections between these 'mini scenes'. If there's one monthly night in Bristol, what's to stop some of the same people travelling to Birmingham, or even London, on another night (and vice-versa) for a similar party. At the moment this isn't really happening - the whole thing is pretty fragmented.

If you go back to Northern Soul, Jazz-Funk, Electro-Funk, early House etc, part of the fun was to travel and hook-up with people from different areas. It was still very much an underground thing, but there was more of a connectedness and unity.

The more we're able to bring people from different areas together, the more they'll feel a part of a bigger picture and support each others nights. This isn't about commercializing things, but strengthening what we already have, whilst reaching out to people who are currently detached from what we're doing, despite being into the music we play.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, though I don't think it relies on having a name for it, it relies on people working together rather than many people each doing their own little thing... in Nottingham right now you can hear "our" kind of thing at least twice a week every week, but because of this the audiences are somewhat dissipated- BUT -when we have special parties like Backyard Boogaloo or Myhouse-Yourhouse they're absolutely rammed... which shows that people are into the idea of a party and uniqueness.

[Fip]

Those that know don't say, those that say don't know. When you name it, it's no longer it.

[fastasleepclub]

after thinking about what i wanted to do musically, i came up with F.A.C.

Thanks, Phil. Your check is in the mail.... :-D

[Brad V]

What hot topic thread here, I knew it would be when i saaw it before I went to bed. Five pages overnight. About 4 or 5 new posts just since I started catching up to it.

I'm still unclear where I sit on the fence, whether it needs a name or not. And if it does, do "we" try to name it, or do we let some random boner come up with a name that sticks.

It's like a conversation I had with BS lately, where he said "history will call all of this dance music". And that's a point echoed by many through out this thread.

It also seems hard to try to include anyone of the already existing musical genre tags in any new title, as it encompasses so many things. Including dub, house, disco, balearic in there seems to limit what people would think of when they heard it. And "nu" seems the kiss of death to anything.

The best thing to my ears was what someone said all the way back on the first page somewhere. "Esoteric" goes a long way to describing it. But then you can't exactly say it's too esoteric to play Marvin Gaye or Stevie Wonder.

I don't think we ever come up with something everyone would agree on. It's hard enough for a group much smaller on this to vote on names for things like a record label. Trying to label what is supposed to be a whole genre seems impossible.

[Solid State]

I used to write 'All Dis Music' on the Society flyers as that seemed to sum up the spirit of it to me.... not one type of music, but in the spirit of the clubs/djs that mixed old and new tracks and differnent styles.

But, admittedly, it DOES assume the person reading it is spotter enough to pick up on the connotations/associations of that song title! It was really a visual thing. You couldnt actually say 'Oh yeah, I play all dis music, me' and it make any sense or be in the slightest informative... but seeing it written made sense (to me at least!)

[Brad V]

Shouldn't that be capitilized. ;) 'Oh yeah, I play ALL dis music, me' If it ends up being called ALL Music, Solid you get the credit. "I play ALL music, the Beatles, Amazulu."

[madr]

best in my book is :

DISCO !!! Not disco .

but that won't get you far ..

Oke, I'll read the thread

:rasta:

[fastasleepclub]

Trying to label what is supposed to be a whole genre seems impossible.

Fun though, isn't it? :)

And it really woke up the Forum. It's like the weather - it's never going to get any better, yet it always provides something to talk about.

Is it just about a name - or is it more about thinking, "We really could be onto something here"? Because that was a part of Greg's intial post, and has been a bit overlooked.

There's no denying that the varying bits and pieces of this are being slowly sanded down, so they'll fit into place. Puzzle pieces, all over the floor, and people are starting to figure it out, and put them together. Young people, old people....people from all over the place.

It's exciting. And it's really helping to turn some of my recent disdain around.

P.S. Slightly unrelated and perhaps somewhat dubious - but does anyone else see 679's licensing of the Pilooski edit of "Beggin'" as something of a catalyst here....i.e. the "industry" is eyeing us up, casually, and from a distance? Not saying it's a good thing, just saying....

[fastasleepclub]

Shouldn't that be capitilized. ;) If it ends up being called ALL Music, Solid you get the credit. "I play ALL music, the Beatles, Amazulu."

No, no....then people will think you only play ALL the dis music.

Like BDP's "The Bridge Is Over", Schoolly D's "I Don't Like Rock & Roll", the answer back song to "Billie Jean", etc. :-D

[machinesoul]

Fun though, isn't it? :)

And it really woke up the Forum. It's like the weather - it's never going to get any better, yet it always provides something to talk about.

Is it just about a name - or is it more about thinking, "We really could be onto something here"? Because that was a part of Greg's intial post, and has been a bit overlooked.

There's no denying that the varying bits and pieces of this are being slowly sanded down, so they'll fit into place. Puzzle pieces, all over the floor, and people are starting to figure it out, and put them together. Young people, old people....people from all over the place.

It's exciting. And it's really helping to turn some of my recent disdain around.

P.S. Slightly unrelated and perhaps somewhat dubious - but does anyone else see 679's licensing of the Pilooski edit of "Beggin'" as something of a catalyst here....i.e. the "industry" is eyeing us up, casually, and from a distance? Not saying it's a good thing, just saying....


Not sure about ' the industry' aspect A, I think they just heard a catchy song that they thought would shift a few copies TBH.

[fastasleepclub]

Not sure about ' the industry' aspect A, I think they just heard a catchy song that they thought would shift a few copies TBH.

Yeah - it's 2007....you're likely right. Which is probably good in a way, but also sad in a way too.

[pipecock]

And they're definitely all a part of the heritage of where this music is today, and how far it is has come. You could argue that some of them are less relevant in the cold light of a September 2007 day....but they're all in the blender, with a lot of the other references that people have touched on.

personally, i think they will always be very relevent because of the scope of what they do and the skill in how they do it. but my main point was that it is not out of the question for any of the current and upcoming deejays in this style to have careers who mirror theirs. in fact, id say that occurances like terje playing deep space or lindstrom having an essential mix or henrik schwarz having a fabric mix out all point to that already beggining to happen!

In business, there's a name for this sort of phemonema - a "disruptor". Something new that comes along, that is somewhat similar to a few other pre-existing things, and perhaps bridges a few of them (often in ways that didn't previously exist) - but which forces a thorough re-examination of those precursors also. Places them in a new, revised context.

exactly. and what im saying is that i think that having people acting as "disruptors" spread throughout all the already existing dance music scenes is way more advantageous than having it all be self contained within a named scene that makes it easy for people to write off!

[cash_or_exchange]

I think you're all over thinking it. You can't force these things...
Leave the pigeonholing to other people and concentrate on making the people dance to nice music.

So nicely put.

[pipecock]

There's no denying that the varying bits and pieces of this are being slowly sanded down, so they'll fit into place. Puzzle pieces, all over the floor, and people are starting to figure it out, and put them together. Young people, old people....people from all over the place.

It's exciting. And it's really helping to turn some of my recent disdain around.

i definitely agree. its as if there are a bunch of random signs out there, all in different places. but theyre written in different languages that people dont understand. but then they have a moment where something becomes clear, and they follow that sign to another one. and then another one. until they arrive at the place we're all talking about. but the best part is that once they arrive, because no one could really understand what brought them there, there is no definitive behaviour that they now have to adopt!

[fastasleepclub]

I think you're all over thinking it. You can't force these things... if you do you end up with bollocks non-genres like 'romo' or the 'new wave of new wave' which just don't connect with people.

Leave the pigeonholing to other people and concentrate on making the people dance to nice music.

So nicely put.

People are worried about the Mixmag/NME element to this....but what about the likes of Simon Reynolds / Phillip Sherburne, etc?

We were talking about it anyway (i.e. this forum exists) so why not continue? I think we have a better chance of keeping those pseudo-nouveau-philosophist wolves from our door if we do....or else they'll be banging on about "Naught-ies Yoof Cultcha" before we know it :-D

[fastasleepclub]

i definitely agree. its as if there are a bunch of random signs out there, all in different places. but theyre written in different languages that people dont understand. but then they have a moment where something becomes clear, and they follow that sign to another one. and then another one. until they arrive at the place we're all talking about. but the best part is that once they arrive, because no one could really understand what brought them there, there is no definitive behaviour that they now have to adopt!

Absolutely - and really I like that description too, because it kind of reminds me of the illegal raves of years gone by. Starting with a phone number, calling it, getting some directions, to another guy in a road lay-by who gives you more directions....until, finally, you can hear the sound, and see the lights.

It's ace, this. Greg really stuck his neck out on this one!

[baleariksoul]

balearic soul.

[Vic20]

Old farts music.

or

Electro House, ooof!

[jahcoozi]

where's Jockey Slut when you need it those boys would have nailed it. think Billum should hurry up with his mag. being from the sticks having a magazine which did charts, interviews and reviews as well as relevant gig/club listings tied it all together

though actually Paul may be onto something in the post above Balearic Soul hmm

[fastasleepclub]

Electro House

http://www.discogs.com/search?type=all&q=electro+house

:scared:

[Vic20]

http://www.discogs.com/search?type=all&q=electro+house

:scared:

For me Electro House is like the plague. Any shop selling or person who says "yeah Electro House mate" I immediately give a very wind berth.

[machinesoul]

balearic soul.

I like it

[ivan_smackhead]

i take it a name has been agreed on, as the thread stopped at 8.14 pm precisely.
or has everyone gone to the pub ?

[Brad V]

Oh, didn't you hear it's "wicked blinders". :-D

[Rotter3*]

Bill came on the radio and started playing the music that dare not speak it's name...

[Brad V]

Bill came on the radio and started playing the music that dare not speak it's name...bill was playing trance?

[ivan_smackhead]

balearic nu jizz trance ?

[melodycrochet]

Defining something always appears to be the privilege of the media or some other culture vulture types .

It also seems to be something British people like to do.

[Kiesnor]

I've just been replying to the following quotes on the gatecrasher thread and thought I'd raise this as a new subject.

One of the conclusions I've made on my travels is the fact that because there isn't a name for this whole Disco, Boogie, Cosmic, Space, Balearic, Electro-Funk, Re-Edits type vibe, a lot of younger people, who really like it, having stumbled upon a one-off night, go away without being able to explain what they've just been listening to, and not knowing where else they can hear this music.

There's no doubt that this has stifled things somewhat. During recent years I've seen some really good nights go under because local support has dropped off and there haven't been enough people coming from outside the immediate area to sustain the night.

On one hand, it's quite good that there isn't a name, but on the other, this hardly helps things grow. When I weigh it all up, I think it would be beneficial if there was a name that was used to describe the groove based approach we're taking.

This would help people identify these type of nights and encourage them to travel. It's fine for us, who use these forums, to keep track of what's going on, but the majority of people rarely go near sites like this, and they're hardly going to find out what's happening on a more underground level by reading Mixmag.

I think back to specialist scenes like Northern Soul and Jazz-Funk, where people thought nothing of travelling 50 miles or further to hear the type of music they were into. There was a network of clubs that benefited each other, with people from, say, Leeds travelling to Nottingham, or Brummies heading to London and Manchester etc etc.

This is what's missing from todays underground, but, I'm sure, if a younger age group became more aware of what's going on we'd see plenty of travellers. They'd certainly bring a fresh energy to everything.

I really believe that somethings just around the corner, and that there's going to be a real movement towards 'our music' in 2008. As I said in the other thread, there's definitely been a noticeable increase in people in their early 20's coming up to me to say how much they like the music I'm playing.

I'm often asked the question - what is this music? But there's no quick answer and I have to reel off a whole heap of 'genres', which only confuses matters.

I'm very interested to hear what other peoples take on this is?

Regarding Brummies travelling for Northern soul... I'm sure they did as the Midlands folk like to travel even if it's just to look at a bit of sand but.. there was a big Soul scene in the Mids as well http://www.junction11.co.uk/BBC.html, we had DJs and the bands.. Locomotive, Spencer Davis Group, even Rob Plant knocked out this kind of stuff before Zep... http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/wma-pop-up/B0000DIZQQ002001/ref=mu_sam_wma_002_001**with

Music just "rambles on" doesn't it... I went to a house/"cosmic disco" DJ night a few weeks back, then watched a funk DJ last weekend as well as a covers band, then tonight I've just watched a pretty good thrash metal band in a local 16th century pub.. that is the future of music IMO.

A mixed bag, a DJ night that plays everything is THE NEXT BIG THING (maybe it always was?)...

The Internet has changed music beyond imagination, whereas once I used to have to stay in on a Friday or Saturday night to avidly record the latest acid house/rave DJs playing on legal and illegal radio stations there is no longer a need to have such sacrifices... pirates have almost been eradicated by the DTI, and there are places like DJHistory and myspace etc etc to expose both young n' old to every kind of music/DJ/new sound around any town in any country in the world 24/7 with fwd, repeat, rewind as standard.

IMO the Internet has made available things that have remained hidden for many years, I had the discussion a while back with my older bro who has lived through punk, ska, disco, hip hop, techno, acid, rave, indie and so on.. I suggested that we may never see another punk era, his reply was that the Internet/myspace is/now/was the new punk, that was a hard one to get my head around. Good day.

[ShocknAmaze]

modernisco

my friend Juanito coined this, I'm sure, although he may have been 'inspired' by something/one...

[Critical Chris]

It also seems to be something British people like to do.

Your the second person to say that by the way i don't think it's pursuit of every "British" person not as much as we like chips , infact if we could start a scene that could get as large as the "Fish & Chip" scene of the 50's that would be out of sight...

Was pointing a shitty finger at the british press actually in-fact the british upper classes have always had a thing for defining things on there terms it must be some sort of post colonial syndrome...anyway never-mind spin a tune be happy!

[mjw666]

words are stupid, words are fun, words can have you on the run :p


no connectivity

just a loosely associated group of wandering ascetics with bags of great records who make parties go off at moments notice

at least, thats what ive been doing :cool:

thre you go, theres a good name:

"wow what a great night at da clu. what sort of music was that?"

"oh that's ****, (s)he's playing that 'wandering ascetics with bags of great records who make parties go off ' sound that's so hot these days"

:roll: :D

[greg wilson]

It's been great to read all the various perspectives on this during the past 24 hours – very informative. I realised I was opening a can of worms when I made the original post, but it's something that I've been weighing up for a while now. I thought that the most honest thing to do was raise the subject for debate.

This is certainly the right place for it - I see this community as a family of sorts. We have diverse opinions (and often taste), but, when it comes right down to it, our shared passion for music gives us a common basis.

Back in the early 80's I found myself embroiled in 'scene politics'. I was a young guy with new ideas that didn't sit right with the older heads, who pretty much wanted things to remain the same. Although there were many disagreements along the way (and even a bit of skullduggery from time to time) I always had respect for the people who opposed me because, at the bottom line, we all had a genuine love of the same thing, black music, and, despite our differences, all felt strongly that we were acting in the best interests of the scene.

I might not be as headstrong as I was back then, but I still call it as I see it and this summer has been a major eye-opener for me. Croatia suggested new possibilities and Bestival confirmed this. 2008 is almost upon us and we're now 2 decades on from what's widely regarded as the start of the House era in this country. That's a hell of a passage of time. Although House will continue to be an important part of the dance landscape, it will never be the all powerful force it once was. Nights that feature 'our music' will be amongst those that fill that void. I'm not for a moment suggesting that this is going to be the next big thing in mainstream clubland, because I believe it's essential it retains it's underground ethos (to one level or other), but it's certainly going to come into greater focus.

As I've said before, if it's not going to be named from within, people are going to try to put names on it from outside – there's no avoiding this, We might refuse to be a part of this 'commercialization', but when some up-and-coming DJ compiles a popular mix album, full of tracks that they've cherry picked via forums like this, we'll know that events have overtaken us. Then there'll be no need to try and explain what type of music we play, instead we'll be categorized by whatever genre name finally fits the glove, whether we like it or not.

My main hope is that, whatever happens, things move forward as more younger heads (inspired by - as Rotter 3, sampling Oscar Wilde, so aptly put it - the music that dare not speak its name) take up the baton and put their own twist on things – spawn their own hybrid grooves. The great thing about these old records we play is that, rather than being something purely retrospective, they're still evolving, regardless of age, as they reach new ears and continue to create fresh impressions.

It's good to be a part of all this.

Peace love and harmony to all.

Night, night.

[melodycrochet]

House Music All Night Long!!!!!!!!!!!

[bonusbeats]

i feel for you all.
if i played prog rock, like toto, and overwrought pop, like kate bush, i'd be desperately searching to disguise it with a different and catchy genre name. ;)

(btw: i have no idea what toto sound like - but it's a funny name)

don't give up now, you've put in 14 pages of hard work. i know you can nut it out.

[machinesoul]

i feel for you all.
if i played prog rock, like toto, and 80s british pop music, like kate bush, i'd be desperately searching to disguise it with a different and catchy genre name. ;)


That statement is exactly why we shouln't worry about a name for this 'scene'. it would be inherently reductive and wouldn't recognise the musical diversity of those involved in it.

[The Velvet Fog]

I still don't see what's wrong with 'Funky House'

[Count Cookula]

i feel for you all.
if i played prog rock, like toto, and 80s british pop music, like kate bush, i'd be desperately searching to disguise it with a different and catchy genre name. ;)

:-D

[Red Rack'em]

i feel for you all.
if i played prog rock, like toto, and 80s british pop music, like kate bush, i'd be desperately searching to disguise it with a different and catchy genre name. ;)


POST OF THE CENTURY!

[jambourgie]

:-d :-d :-d

[melodycrochet]

"In the beginning, there was Jack, and Jack had a groove.
And from this groove came the groove of all grooves.
And while one day viciously throwing down on his box, Jack boldy declared,
"Let there be HOUSE!"
and house music was born.
"I am, you see,
I am
the creator, and this is my house!
And, in my house there is ONLY house music.
But, I am not so selfish because once you enter my house it then becomes OUR house and OUR house music!"
And, you see, no one man owns house because house music is a universal language, spoken and understood by all.
You see, house is a feeling that no one can understand really unless you're deep into the vibe of house.
House is an uncontrollable desire to jack your body.
And, as I told you before, this is our house and our house music.
And in every house, you understand, there is a keeper.
And, in this house, the keeper is Jack.
Now some of you who might wonder,
"Who is Jack, and what is it that Jack does?"
Jack is the one who gives you the power to jack your body!
Jack is the one who gives you the power to do the snake.
Jack is the one who gives you the key to the wiggly worm.
Jack is the one who learns you how to walk your body.
Jack is the one that can bring nations and nations of all Jackers together under one house.
You may be black, you may be white; you may be Jew or Gentile. It don't make a difference in OUR House.
And this is fresh."

[Critical Chris]

Are you saying we should call it House ?

[ivan_smackhead]

The Internet has changed music beyond imagination, whereas once I used to have to stay in on a Friday or Saturday night to avidly record the latest acid house/rave DJs playing on legal and illegal radio stations there is no longer a need to have such sacrifices...the internet is the new punk.

i've thought this for some time too.

if i missed *gulp* Tongy on a friday night i was screwed. or i'd have to stay up on saturday nights and record the essential mix (turning the tape over half-way through !). or i'd have to stand in 3beat records (liverpool) until i heard it or take my pen with me to cream and scratch details down on a flyer or hopefully collar weatherall/robertson/mackintosh etc and ask 'em.

not anymore, i just come on here or anot